Talk:Knuckles VS ???/@comment-25182985-20150719142151/@comment-108.28.156.124-20150720210709

Here's the thing, though: Knuckles is MUCH slower than Sonic (as in the start of one game, Sonic casually doubled his speed, and Knuckles and Tails only kept up due to holding his hand at the time.). Obviously, the speed gap is much lower than in Mario vs Sonic, and it dosen't help that DK has defeated speedsters and foes similar to Knuckles in the past, giving him some skill with speedsters. Plus, his barrels further narrows the speed gap, and his fast projectiles are VERY useful (since, again, Knuckles is much slower than Sonic.

Plus, again, DK has a counter to nearly everything Knuckles posseses.


 * Knuckles punching down a mountain is dwarfed by punching down the MOON (moons are obviously much bigger and heavier than a mountain


 * Hammer Punch is matched by Ground Slam (and DK has dealt with enemies with attacks similar to the Hammer Punch.


 * Orange Grenades counter the Spin Dash (it moves straight forward, making it predictable, and he could easily hit Knuckles with a grenade while he's charging up the Spin Dash).


 * While martial arts are undeniably formidable, he'll have to get within range of DK to do so, which would be a challenge due to DK's arms, due to him being an ape, being much stronger and twice as large as Knuckle's.


 * Coconut Popgun counters Knuckles' gliding attacks, due to them being effective against similar gliding moves in DK64.


 * DK has better intellect, as he is less prone to outbursts of rage, and hasn't been tricked as many times.


 * Super Knuckles, meet Strong Kong, who is also invincible and lasts around the same time.

Now, Knuckles is plenty strong, but DK's superior durability (even without the moon punching feat) and his impressive stamina would let him survive through the worst of what Knuckles could dish out, while vice-versa, you can't exactly say the same thing.

Yes, I agree Knuckles is smarter than people give him credit for, but the thing is, he has been tricked MULTIPLE times by foes smarter than him, and who's to say DK couldn't do the same? Plus, Knuckles has been shown hot-tempered multiple times, and I'm almost CERTIAN that will take effect here (example: He is VERY likely to get enraged at DK's impressive durability and stamina,and just as likely to get exhausted trying to kill him, during which time, DK could take advantage of the now even MORE reduced speed gap, while now gaining and even huger power advantage.)

If Knuckles attempts hit-and-run tatics, DK would just use a barrel to shoot himself at high speeds and potentially even catch up. Plus, there's also the fact that there's nothing to stop DK from holding a TNT barrel in front of him to make such tatics fail miserably.

Knuckles would definetly put up a good fight, but with all these advantages, he'd basically be fighting an uphill battle from the start, with his inferior power, endurance, stamina, and ranged game.

Finally, Knuckles is severly outmatched in close quarters, as in addition to all his advantages above, he also could counter nearly everything the guardian of the Master Emerald could throw at him, and the few he can't, he could easily tank. And finally, his infinite cargo throw (an advanced technique in SSB64, which WOULD be allowed, due to the cargo throw coming from his own games and previous foes getting SSB attacks) would keep Knuckles stuck for as long as DK pleases while still harming Knuckles, and Knuckles dosen't have anything to break out of it, as like most infinite grabs in SSB64, it isn't escapable unless you have a move that grants intangibility, which Knuckles dosen't have. It dosen't help that DK's grab range is among the best in all Smash games.

Now, to tally it all up:

Knuckle's Advantages


 * Faster on the ground.


 * Can glide.


 * Good Martial artist, and has a lot of combat skill.


 * More serious about battles than one would think.


 * The combatant I like more.

DK's Advantages (Note: Incomplete)


 * Much stronger.


 * Much more durable.


 * Amazing stamina, coupled with endurance, would let him survive just about anything Knuckles could dish out.


 * Exceeds Knuckles in ranged combat as WELL as close quarters.


 * Twice as much physical range.


 * Has dealt with speedsters.


 * Can counter nearly everything Knuckles has.


 * Infinite cargo throw would keep Knuckles suspended, and the latter has no reliable means of escaping.

Now do you see?