Board Thread:VS Debates/@comment-32173356-20170910021145/@comment-27389401-20170910132831

TheOneLegend wrote: No powerups? Sonic fairly easily. Sorry but is not easy, Mario fought foes that are much more powerful than Sonic for example:

Bowser: Bowser tanked the collapse of his Galaxy Reactor, which was stated to threaten the very fabric of the universe whilst extremely fatigued. Bowser's Galaxy Reactor is repeatedlyuniversal threat, "The Fate of the Universe," solidifying it at this tier. And Bowser himself scales to this for taking on others who can harm him, like the Mario Brothers. Bowser also fought and defeated Culex, who is stated as the Master of Space and Time in the player's guide, page 64, and in the Japanese translation, states that he is the embodiment of time from its beginning to its end and that he holds the power of creation throughout the Marioverse.

Culex: Same reasons of how OP Bowser is.

Wart: Wart conquered Muu once and Subcon twice. The latter is an entire universe, as it is a dream world. After his defeat in BS Super Mario Bros., Subcon, an entire universe, ceases to exist. Wart also put a curse over Subcon and its inhabitants, apparently altering the universe in some way And before you say that it was all just a dream, BS Super Mario USA confirmed that SMB2 was real.

Shadow Mario: Shadow Mario polluted and cursed the entirety of Isle Delfino. He also has an amazing amount of knowledge on the Secret Levels, somehow knowing when Mario enters them and where they are all located. There are also cartoony designs within these universes [there being 10 of them in totality, possibly more, with four matching the standards and the others scaling] like the train tracks, which provides more evidence Shadow Mario created them. Not to mention the fact that his goop is flowing directly from a Secret Level here, proving his association with them. Because their celestial bodies match ours Not to mention how those stars are different colors and luminosities, showing clearly that the Doppler Effect is in effect, making those levels expand infinitely—just like our universe. And this is without mentioning that another one of the Secret Levels has enormous clouds out in its space, which is identical to our universe's clouds in space that form galaxies over time. Clearly these are universes, and the infinite voids back it up and because it's seemingly an infinite void, these are full-blown universes that Shadow Mario created. From scratch, mind you; meaning he also created their space-time continuums. We know he did so in a matter of seconds because there was a live commercial at the start of the game that shows everything hadn't been screwed up yet, and Shadow Mario was in the background, seemingly just arriving. And Mario was literally just about to arrive, meaning that Shadow Mario, somehow, corrupted the entire island and created these levels in a matter of seconds to minutes. Clearly he didn't take his time. Mario has the same physicality as Shadow Mario, thus, scales.

Antasma: Can manipulate all of the Dream World. And he used the Dark Stone who is equal to the Dream Stone, which is composed of 7,670,250,000,000,000,000 dreams/universes

Dark Bowser: He is the complete dark power, and should be superior to Chakron who is at one with the entire universe

The explanation of official DB was poor because they ignored Mario feats that makes him superior to Base Sonic and by talking about speed, Mario has speed feats that outclasses Base Sonic's speed for example:

Mario keeps up with Bowser in both Galaxy games. And in SMG2, Bowser tagged Starship Mario with his meteors. Starship Mario can travel entire worlds, which are entire universes, as Lubba states that you must travel through space-time in order to reach unknown worlds. Starship Mario crosses said universes, going from one side to the other, in ten seconds. It takes 91 billion lightyears to do that in reality, so, Mario can travel and fight with speeds that cross 9.1 billion lightyears every second, and can react at such a speed.

Note: I just showing you that Mario is still strong and powerful in base form and that's because some peoples downplays Base Mario like peoples saying he is useless without power-ups which is not really useless without power-ups.