Talk:Link VS Cloud/@comment-60.50.40.122-20150727160239/@comment-190.22.37.7-20150730195624

1. Well Cloud does deal damage in numbers of thousands. And there are Strenght buffing equipments. Not to mention Ultima Weapon which ignores defense and increases Cloud's Power the more HP he has. Also, Mirror Shield work if you block with it, it doesn't create a magical barrier around Link like the reflect Spell itself.

2. Cloud by himself has speed that borders on supersonic. He can equip Speed Boosting materia that go up to x1.5 his already great speed and has the Haste spell. Also, movement speed is not the same as combat speed, running fast doesn't mean you have reflexes or reactions as quick. That he gained overall superspeed from items is an assumption made here.

3. The red clothes double Link's strength which is good but within a normal limit, nothing states it would work multypling the golden gloves, it would also require that Links drops a Defensive tunic (given you have to change with the fairy the tunic you want to use). The Goron Bracelet boost Link's strength but not that much, you can simply rip bushes and Bomb Flowers. The red clothes would work better and make more sense that Link can trade blows with Cloud, though, but the super strength he used in this battle comes from the assumption the Golden Gauntlets give great impact strength and anchoring, forces different than the one used to lift heavy objects.

4. The Golden Sword would have been great, the biggoron Sword however would have dropped Link's Shield which is THE reason he could survive Cloud's onslaught. The Boomerang in Links Awakening defeats SOME enemies in one hit, many of them just get stunned. Cloud can perfectly dodge arrows though, the guy has shown to dodge bullets. Fire from the elemental staves too and the Ziedrich halves all elemental damage. The megaton hammer would have been interesting to see, though its movements are sluggish and require two hands, meaning Link once again loses the key factor of his victory.

5. The mirror Shield only works if you block with it, if you don't have it out or get hit in the back Link takes damage, it doesn't work like a magical barrier around Link. Also, there are magic attacks it won't stop. Cloud could perfectly stop small beams and fireballs thrown at him. Link's goddess spells or the medallions would be better as heavy artillery. Also Cloud gets Shield that nullifies all damage, that doesn't stop items, true, but for that there's Barrier and MBarrier that cut down physical and magic attacks anyway.

6. I dunno how dependance plays a part on this, really. It's a one on one fight after all. Though the comparison is a bit unfair, Superbosses are overpowered because they are meant to be fought with everything the game has. In a strategy RPG of course you will need an entire party, meanwhile Link has to fight alone since it's an adventure game. That's like saying, Link should fight bonus bosses with his inventory cut down. Then again, Link is better suited going alone, he's the chosen hero and all that... though you COULD make a point that he NEEDS the assistance of the fairy/imp/whatever that the games has as exposition source, given they explain the weaknesses and strategies to use in bosses and all, meaning Link actually does need his bit of assistance.

7. Won't disagree, Link has more experience if he's given all his incarnations at once. Though Cloud does have military formation before stealing Zack's memories and to be fair I wouldn't rely too much on Zack's memories as a experience in itself, Cloud took Zack's persona and believed to be him, he didn't transfer his mind into himself. Also, Link does have moves with his sword, true... but have you seen what Cloud does with his? Or even better with all his swords in Advent Children? Cloud can also parry, dodge, roll as seen in AC and many more things. This also raises the question: if Link gets all the experience of through Zelda with good items from everywhere, why is Cloud stuck in his FFVII incarnation with weak gear from there?

I agree, Link is a better experienced fighter, smarter and better equipped. But they really underplayed what Cloud does have, his options, the capabilities he does display in his canon while they assumed many thinks about Link that have no real basis on the Zelda games. The main deal is that Cloud has a simple brutish style Link could easily get around... which is not exactly true given his skills with the fusion swords and the many strategies FFVII has. Not saying Cloud should win, but they really brought him down this time in the matchup.