Thread:Metal Mario875/@comment-31355441-20170829212152

so someone decided to debunk your feats about mario, here's all of his comment
 * Ok, Mario is extremely strong, durable, and fast, but he's not close to base game Sonic's top speed and i have to agree with the people saying he's not universal to multiversal
 * Ok, Mario is extremely strong, durable, and fast, but he's not close to base game Sonic's top speed and i have to agree with the people saying he's not universal to multiversal

you : Mario defeated Wart, who conquered Muu once and Subcon twice. The latter is an entire universe, as it is a dream world. After his defeat in BS Super Mario Bros., Subcon, an entire universe, ceases to exist. Wart also put a curse over Subcon and its inhabitants, apparently altering the universe's state in its entirety.

Power =/= durability, how many times must I tell you this, I tell you this in every * *debate we have, yet you want to ignore it

conquering doesn't mean he destroyed it, which he didn't

Mario beat him with Vegetables, which he summons from the Dream Machine, not his own power, heck when Mario was contacted, it was said Wart's weakness was Vegetables

also that was dream Mario had

which are we really using a dream Mario had as a Mario ?, heck even then it doesn't matter, because Mario wasn't hit with a spell, and he beat Wart by putting Vegetables in his mouth

You : Mario defeated Bowser, who was under the effects of the Power Stars, which enabled him to create galaxy-sized realms within the walls and paintings. Why galaxy-sized? The Throwback Galaxy is the same exact world as Whomp's Fortress, and is referred to as a galaxy. He had to of created the time in the painting as well, as time and space cannot exist without the other. If he didn't, he'd have Infinite speed for moving in timeless realms. For creating space-time continuums less than universal in scale, he'd be at the higher end of this tier. And we know Bowser created these worlds individually, because Toad describes them as Bowser's "separate" world"

Moving in a place with out time is not infinite speed

That's moving in a time stopper

By your logic, Eggman has infinite speed : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebp_JixSD5o

Eggman and Robotnik are in a place where time does not exist, and they're moving just fine, by your logic Eggman and Robotnik has infinite speed

These could also be called pocket dimensions as well, which can be as small as worlds, but even if they were galaxy sized, again as I said Power =/= durability, nor does creation power = destructive power,

You : Shadow Mario polluted and cursed the entirety of Isle Delfino. He also has an amazing amount of knowledge on the Secret Levels, somehow knowing when Mario enters them and where they are all located. There are also cartoony designs within these universes [there being 10 of them in totality, possibly more, with four matching the standards and the others scaling] like the train tracks, which provides more evidence Shadow Mario created them. Not to mention the fact that his goop is flowing directly from a Secret Level here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsP89kq46uE&feature=youtu.be&t=16s), proving his association with them. Because their celestial bodies match ours [Not to mention how those stars are different colors and luminosities, showing clearly that the Doppler Effect is in effect, making those levels expand infinitely—just like our universe. And this is without mentioning that another one of the Secret Levels has enormous clouds out in its space, which is identical to our universe's clouds in space that form galaxies over time. Clearly these are universes, and the infinite voids back it up] and because it's seemingly an infinite void, these are full-blown universes that Shadow Mario created. From scratch, mind you; meaning he also created their space-time continuums. We know he did so in a matter of seconds because there was a live commercial at the start of the game that shows everything hadn't been screwed up yet, and Shadow Mario was in the background, seemingly just arriving. And Mario was literally just about to arrive, meaning that Shadow Mario, somehow, corrupted the entire island and created these levels in a matter of seconds to minutes. Clearly he didn't take his time. Mario has the same physicality as Shadow Mario, thus, scales.

You : Defeated Bowser, who survived the destruction and rebirth of the universe.

No, he didn't survive the destruction of the universe, as you showed : http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/deathbattlefanon/images/1/15/Bowser_Universal_Durability_Confirmed%21.png/revision/latest?cb=20161117231131

It states on the guide Bowser escaped the horrible fate, which yeah he escaped from staying dead, as Rosalina brought him back to life

You : The Grand Star enabled Bowser sufficient enough power to create a black hole that was consuming a universe's entirety. The worlds are indeed entire universes, as Lubba states that you must travel through space-time in order to reach unknown worlds.

incorrect, Boswer didn't create a black hole, whether you're talking about the moment when people say when Mario and Bowser are fighting, and assume they're fighting in a black hole, or if you're talking about the Black Hole and Supernova part, Bowser did not create them

The so called black hole people say Bowser and Mario fought in, wasn't a black hole, it was Bowser's Galaxy shrinking : http://gamecola.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/cake2.jpg

and the black hole that happened in the Supernova, was also not made by Bowser

You : Damaged Chakron, who is at one with the universe, and has been absorbing waves from it for a thousand years.

......

*They didn't damage him, they knocked him over, which he states they had to shake the ground to do it

also I'm pretty sure being one with the universe doesn't make him universal in durability

The Supreme Kai is connected with Beerus, yet he's nowhere near as strong or as durable as Beerus, and if he dies, Beerus will die as well

you : Defeated the Dark Star, who was stated to contain unfathomable power, here, and to be a cosmic threat, here.

1) Again, power =/= durability

2) Mario and Luigi beat him

3) Mario and Luigi beat him by beating his little Dark minions(what ever they're called), they harmed him by throwing them at him, and when they were gone, he was then vulnerable, which let them beat him

You : Also aided in the defeat of Dark Bowser, who was the complete dark power and was, thus, double the power of the Dark Star and Dark Fawful.

Yeah by beating the Dark Star Core, which not only made Dark Bowser stronger, but it healed him, and when he spat it out, he became weaker in power and durability, then Bowser sucked it up, and Mario and Luigi beat it

You : Held his own against Antasma, who can manipulate all of the Dream World

but that's not really all that impressive, it's just like saying how kids survive Freddy Kruger in the Dream World, yet do we put them at universal levels ......

also he had help from Dreamy Luigi and that orange guy(can't remember his name)

You : Equal to Paper Mario, who created a realm with numerous stars in the background. (if we take paper mario to general he's Multiversal+ or higher according to some of my research)

which you've already proven to be wrong on, and there is the fact I brought proof that debunked you last time we debated, which you probably just ignored and didn't look at

You : Fought and defeated Culex, who is stated as the Master of Space and Time in the guide booklet, page 64, and in the Japanese translation, states that he holds time from its beginning to its end and that he holds the power of creation throughout the Marioverse.

Would say how that fight is post game, and isn't canon, but hey this is using every Mario but Paper Mario

But again, Power =/= durability, and creating =/= destructive power

I also just realized something ........

Paper Mario is the one with the Star Rod, and this fight says all power ups/forms, and no Paper Mario

*meaning Sonic could have the Genie of the Ring, and thing is, even if Mario was given the Star Rod, Sonic can easily take the rod from Mario, while Mario couldn't do the same with Sonic, due to his speed, and the overall fact that it's far easier to takes a rod out of someone's hand, or a rod on them, than it is to take a ring off of someone, you can not deny that at least, and the Sonic from Secret Rings is the same Sonic as Game Sonic, he was sucked into the book, it wasn't book someone wrote, I don't get why people say it was just a book, when Sonic was sucked into it

you : no the creator said there's only 1 Mario in the whole damn series, yes even paper mario and before you paper jam than let me tell you that there's load shit of other proofs instead of paper jam that prove that Mario is paper mario

No, like you told me last time, the creator said there is no canon in Mario, that would mean no Mario is the same Mario, if he said Mario is all one canon, then that's saying that he's 1 Mario(even though Paper Mario proved to be a different Mario), but no as you said the creator said there is no Mario canon, but the only reason you're allowed to mix these Marios(not Paper) is because this is a composite battle, not including Paper Mario and Archie Sonic

deny it all you want

You : "Oh please, the black hole in Mario galaxy was weaker than the "not" black hole Sonic survived, since it just slowly pushed things in. Sonic was moving incredibly fast, and he survived it engulfing him"

Mario wasn't in a black hole, nor has he survived one, neither has Sonic

you : ok the Mario galaxy ones are not that strong (expect for the supernova) but the Mario party one are fast, also for fuck sake Sonic didn't outrun a damn black hole in Sonic colors it's a fake black hole

'''That Black Hole mini game feat isn't impressive ...... It literally threw asteroids at them, plus even if you wanna deny that and say it's a strong and real black hole, then that would be only in swimming speed if anything, not running speed, but again this black hole wasn't all that impressive'''

while game Sonic didn't outrun the fake black hole, Boom T.V. show Sonic outran one in Double Doomsday

Tails : But if you're too slow, you'll be pulled into the black hole and all existence will be erased

you : "Bowser always underestimates his enemies, his arrogance is what allows him to take damage from weaker opponents."

You : he does that to other enemies expect for mario, also are you calling Mario weaker than bowser

also Mario is nowhere near as fast as Gmae Sonic, you stop saying that right now, no offense, but I'm 100% sure SEGA and Nintendo would laugh at what you just said on Mario near Sonic's speed

Mario is not Multiversal or Universal in anything

Game Sonic is also not Multiversal, Universal or 1/3 Universal, I'm pretty sure if I gave him any title it would be Planet if anything at all, and that's when in Super

But that's when we use Sonic X Super Sonic

In the Japan version of Sonic X, cards showed up in the episode, telling you about the characters, and there was a Super Sonic card that when translated, said Super Sonic has Infinite speed and power

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11130/111303510/5492951-super+sonic+has+infinite+speed+as+shown+by+this+official+card.jpg

So now we have a Sonic that when in Super has Infinite Speed and Power(SonicX), is invulnerable(games), and can use the genie of the ring for any wish(game), and I could keep going on

I showed this to 3 of my friends who like Mario way more than Sonic, yet called you statements wrong

and now I don't feel like hearing you deny everything or use other feats like these, and assume they're universal or multiversal, use power = durability, use creation = destruction power, use a feat which Mario didn't do with his strength, or make stuff up(this isn't the first time you've done this either), so I most likely won't reply so I don't have to hear it(this is like the 3rd-4th time you've done this, and I'm tired of reading it and debunking it)

have a great day dude, and hope we can be friends, I'm off to play Sonic Mania, because the game just came out on PC today, and I've been dying to play it    17m
 * SpeedsterX123+1 Oh and before I forget, I don't think I said this

Even if there was a universal being, there isn't any proof Mario was hit with the universal attack, not all abilities equal each other, it's like saying a Charizard's ember is as strong as it's Blast Burn

and like I said with Dimento(yes I know Paper Mario isn't allowed, but I know someone is going to say he's multiversal), Dimento was going to survive the universal-multiversal blast due to the Chaos Heart making a barrier around, yet when Bowser, Luigi and Peach showed up to help Mario, they teamed up, the power of the Pure Heart broke the shield, and they were able to beat him, and yes he sent the same kind of attack at Mario that would of destroyed the multiverse, but ..

1) There wasn't any proof of him actually hitting Mario with it

2) Yes they were the same type of attacks, but the ones he sent at Mario were far weaker, and it shows the attack that was going to destroy all of existence was being charged up constantly and it took time and the ones shot at Mario were just shot at him barely charging up, so no he didn't send attacks at Mario that were at universal-multiversal level

ok now I'm done (and if his name wasn't Dimento, I'm sorry for getting his name mixed up) this is his comment
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