Talk:Goku VS Superman 2/@comment-26871575-20150830190349/@comment-26871575-20150905172750

To KaiserTrigger,

A lot of what he said is true in a loose sense of the word, namely that several of those feats are misrepresented or misleading as I shall explain.

"Survived Darkseid's Omega Beams, which tamper with the fabric of reality"

"Killed Doomsday before he died, who also survived Darkseid's Omega Beams"

This is why I've said that power-scaling should be used in an even stricter sense for Superman than Goku. Superman has had dozens of different writers over the years who have vastly different interpretations of his abilities. Quite often consistency and logic are ignored and plot convenience dictates the outcome. This means that results for Marvel and DC are largely inconsistent and confusing. If fact according to Stan Lee, whoever wins in a fight between comic characters depends entirely on who the writer likes the best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHfJ_NjJTM8

Hence we can't simply scale Superman's durability based on encounters with Darkseid. On certain occassions Superman gets beaten by Darkseid easily and on other days Superman beats Darkseid, same logic applies to Doomsday

"Survived flying through a red Sun"

"Survived being flown with enough force to devestate a planet and cause nuclear winter"

"Survived 15 Supernovas"

Both of which are less impressive than the feats that I gave Superman. Not to mention that Goku tanked blows from a certified Solar-System buster in the form of Beerus, which is a much higher durability feat than any of the above feats for Superman

"Can incinerate entire planets with his heat vision"

I included that in my sorces, but Goku can punch through a material thousands of times denser than the Sun, blow up multiple planets in his weakest form and destroy the solar-system in his SSJ God form, which far outclasses being able to incinerate a planet, not to mention heat vision drains his solar reserves faster than any of his other powers

"Patched up holes in reality with his static electricity"

"Shattered the boudaries of space and time with just the shockwaves of his punches"

In the case of patching up the boundaries of space, that's the only time to my knowledge that Superman has ever shown an ability like that, no other author has ever included any static electricity abilities for Superman, so including that in the analysis is dubious at best. Also he stated that Superman shattered the boundaries of space and time with just his punches, that did not happen. What actually happened was the collision of the punches between two versions of Superman shattered the boundaries between space and time. But even disregarding that he forgets that Majin Buu, a character far weaker than Beerus or SSJG Goku tore a hole between dimensions just by screaming, a feat that SSJ3 Gotenks repeated, there's no reason to think Goku couldn't do the same

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-3042181

"Lifted a book of infinite pages"

"Lifted the Spectre of the ground, who is literally made of eternity"

I already mentioned that I wouldn't include those feats in my analysis because of how inconsistent they were with every other story of Superman ever written. But even then there's a lot wrong with both of those feats. With regards to the Spectre, yes the Spectre weighed eternity, but eternity measures time, not mass. There is no way of knowing precisely how much the Spectre weighed, only that he is heavy. Also he didn't lift the Spectre on his own,  he had help from Wonder Woman and the Green Lantern

As for the book of infinite pages, the book did not have infinite pages, it contained every book in the history of the 52 universes in the DC 52 multiverse. The exact line of dialouge was "A book with an infinite number of pages all occupying the same space" followed by "This contains every book possible" the first line was just a hyperbole, because every single book ever written contained in a single book, would seem like an infinite amount. Also both Superman and Shazam didn't even truly lift the book, they approached the book (which was already floating in the air) and it rejected them.

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4189028

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4188963

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4188964

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4188965

Not to mention the fact that there's no such thing as infinite weight, it's completely infeasible even by comic standards since something with an infinite weight would have an infinitely strong gravity field, which would destroy the entire universe.

"Held a mini-black hole in his hand"

Superman held a magnetic field surronding a tiny black hole, no bigger than a spec of dust as stated by Captain Atom. The magnetic field was bucking against the pressure of the black hole. Some have stated that the mini-black hole was equivalent to the weight of a star, which is incorrect, a statement made by Berkeley sums it up nicely

When a huge star runs out of fuel, it collapses and then explodes in a supernova. What's left over is a massive but relatively small object called a black hole. To give you an idea of a black hole's density: the sun has a radius of 700,000 km. A black hole that weighs as much as the sun would have a radius of 3 km. If you could fill a typical pop can (12 oz) with the material in such a black hole, the can would weigh 7 trillion tons, almost as much as the weight of the water in Lake Superior.

A Can of pop weighs considerably more than a spec of dust, so Superman wasn't lifitng anything close to the weight of a star

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4214713

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4214714

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4214715

"Beat the Anti-Monitor, who destroyed multiple universes simulatneously"

That's not what happened, it took a combination of all of Earth's strongest heroes and several villains (including Darkseid) plus the Spectre (who was engaging the Anti-Monitor in a fistfight and empowering all of Earth's magic users simultaneously) to weaken the Anti-Monitor to the point where he could be beaten with a punch by Superman

"Once easily absorbed enough solar energy to vaporize half a galaxy"

Again this is due to the nature of his powers, he's capable of absorbing limitless solar energy. If there was a fire that was capable of incinerating the entire universe, then are we to believe Hellboy has universal level durability? No it's simply because he's fireproof. Also it wasn't sunlight he absorbed but anti-sunlight, however in reality the photon is its own anti-particle.

"Can hear sounds millions of miles away"

"Can see at a subatomic level and hear through the vacuum of space"

Neither of which are as useful as Goku's abilities

"Took a galaxy destroying blast from Imperiex"

"Moved Warworld..."

Both of these took place in the same storyline and again like with the Anti-Monitor things happened very differently to what is being described here. Firstly Superman did not tank a galaxy busting blast from Imperiex. What actually happened was he and Doomsday (who was brainwashed at the time) fought and destroyed several Imperiex drones, before the Imperiex Prime showed up and vapourized Doomsday with a single blast (only Darkseid teleporting Superman away saved Doomsday from a similar fate). Then several heroes from Earth and other worlds that were at risk of being destroyed by Imperiex managed to crack Impereix's shell, with the intention of having his energy teleported to the start of the Big Bang. Brainiac with the Warworld then betrayed everyone and absorbed the energy of Imperiex. Superman then dived into the Sun to gain a power boost, which is what allowed him to move the Warworld at FTL speed.

"Beat Mandrakk who can shatter universes"

See the very top.