Talk:Knuckles VS ???/@comment-25182985-20150719142151/@comment-96.255.112.88-20150721050615

'''Here's the thing, though: Knuckles is MUCH slower than Sonic (as in the start of one game, Sonic casually doubled his speed, and Knuckles and Tails only kept up due to holding his hand at the time.). '''

 Yes, it is true that Knuckles is not as fast as Sonic or Shadow, but that still doesn’t change the fact  Knuckles still speed blitzes.[https://youtu.be/Zcv9kaZs9HI?t=24s  And the game you’re referring to is the opening cut scene to Sonic Heroes. ]



'''Obviously, the speed gap is much lower than in Mario vs Sonic, and it dosen't help that DK has defeated speedsters and foes similar to Knuckles in the past, giving him some skill with speedsters. '''

 Can you name any speedsters that DK has defeated? (And if you say Sonic the Hedgehog in Smash Brothers I’m leaving.) And if he has defeated speedsters, how fast were they capable of moving? When I searched for Donkey Kong fighting and defeating speedsters of any kind, I found nothing. You need to give me a link or something to prove this, otherwise I will ignore this claim.

 ​ Plus, his barrels further narrows the speed gap, and his fast projectiles are VERY useful (since, again, Knuckles is much slower than Sonic. 

 How would ANY of DK’s barrels help him when fighting Knuckles? And again, while it is true that Knuckles is slower than Sonic, that still doesn’t change the fact that Knuckles is significantly faster. As I said earlier, you need to give me sources that DK could fight, and defeat, a speedster, because until you do, your argument will be ignored.   You still haven’t explained how DK wouldn’t get speed blitzed. Back up your claims with evidence please, this is debating 101. And Knuckles is more than capable of dealing with projectiles, BTW.

 §   Knuckles punching down a mountain is dwarfed by punching down the MOON (moons are obviously much bigger and heavier than a mountain   Again, you are assuming that the Moon in DK’s moon punching feat was to scale and accurately reflects physics. But that doesn’t matter, as I’ve already addressed that DK is nowhere near fast enough to reliably tag Knuckles in the first place.

 §   Hammer Punch is matched by Ground Slam (and DK has dealt with enemies with attacks similar to the Hammer Punch. 

I couldn’t find anything called the Ground Slam, but I think you’re referring to the Ground Pound, because that was one of the first things I found when I looked it up. If so, then I can safely say the Ground Pound doesn’t cancel the Hammer Punch. Here’s why, the Hammer Punch creates a shockwave that causes all nearby enemies on the ground to become stunned. The ground pound is literally DK using his butt to stomp you with. For that to work, DK would need to be directly above Knuckles. And we’ve already established that DK couldn’t reliably hit Knuckles in the first place. Can you give me examples of DK fighting enemies with similar abilities? (In this case the Ground Slam or the Hammer Punch.) If you meant something else, then that’s your fault, [https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof because you didn’t back up anything you said with evidence, and expected me to just believe you. ] 

''' §   Orange Grenades counter the Spin Dash (it moves straight forward, making it predictable, and he could easily hit Knuckles with a grenade while he's charging up the Spin Dash). '''

 ​  I’ve already addressed some of this earlier in my comment. Knuckles is too fast for DK to reliably aim and hit him with orange grenades and his coconut gun. DK is just too slow. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diTl-pELwdo&ab_channel=Frokenok3 That and the spin dash doesn’t just move in a straight line. The user can turn and jump while using it. ] You are also forgetting that Knuckles has projectiles of his own.

 While martial arts are undeniably formidable, he'll have to get within range of DK to do so, which would be a challenge due to DK's arms, due to him being an ape, being much stronger and twice as large as Knuckle's.    If you’ve been paying attention to my comments, (and I really don’t think you have) you would know that Knuckles speed blitzes, and DK’s arms are irrelevant when your opponent has more fighting experience and is significantly faster than you are. That part about how big DK’s arms are is also irrelevant.

' §   Coconut Popgun counters Knuckles' gliding attacks, due to them being effective against similar gliding moves in  DK64 ''. '''    I’ve already addressed that earlier in this comment. Knuckles speed blitzes before DK could properly aim at anything. Knuckles isn’t committed to gliding either. The Drill Claw exists for a reason.  And what do you mean by similar gliding moves? Has DK ever fought against opponents that could glide like Knuckles? Again you never give me any sources, so I’ll have to ignore that comment. As I said earlier, Knuckles has his own projectiles, so stop spreading misinformation about Knuckles' abilities.

''' §   DK has better intellect, as he is less prone to outbursts of rage, and hasn't been tricked as many times. '''   You are confusing intelligence with gullibility. I guess I’ll have to teach you this too. [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intelligence                                   Intelligence: the ability to learn or understand things or to deal with new or difficult situations. ] [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gullibility Gullible: easily fooled or cheated; especially : quick to believe something that is not true. ]    This is again, something I have already addressed in my previous comments. Also Knuckles has shown that he could translate ancient texts in Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity and knows many secret locations and passage ways on Angel Island. So while Knuckles is no genius, he’s not an idiot, and even has been shown to adapt to his opponents fighting style mid battle.  That alone displays that Knuckles isn’t a complete idiot. That, and DK is no intellectual juggernaut. He isn’t a Read Richards, Tony Stark, or even a Peter Parker. Now I’m actually curious. What are DK’s best intelligence feats? Not that it matters, as if anything, Knuckles has the advantage in intelligence.

''' §   Super Knuckles, meet Strong Kong, who is also invincible and lasts around the same time. ''' <span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"ＭＳ明朝";mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"TimesNewRoman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language: EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">  You are aware that Knuckles super transformation gives him a buff in all stats, (specifically speed and power) right? And surely you would know that Strong Kong ONLY makes DK invincible temporarily. If Super Knuckles fought Strong Kong, Strong Kong would be horribly out speed (even worse than he was before) and likely wouldn’t be able to handle Knuckles' chaos attacks.  You are also forgetting that Knuckles has his own invincibility and shields to use.

 ​ Now, Knuckles is plenty strong, but DK's superior durability (even without the moon punching feat) 

Wrong stat, genius. Punching the moon would be a strength feat, not a durability feat. This is something I also addressed in my earlier comments that you conveniently ignored. <p class="MsoNormal">'''   Yes, I agree Knuckles is smarter than people give him credit for, but the thing is, he has been tricked MULTIPLE times by foes smarter than him, and who's to say DK couldn't do the same? '''

<p class="MsoNormal"> ​  I’ve addressed this point already. Stop repeating yourself. <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;background:rgb(80,66,66);">Plus, Knuckles has been shown hot-tempered multiple times, and I'm almost CERTIAN that will take effect here (example: He is VERY likely to get enraged at DK's impressive durability and stamina,and just as likely to get exhausted trying to kill him, during which time, DK could take advantage of the now even MORE reduced speed gap, while now gaining and even huger power advantage.)  <span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:"TimesNewRoman";mso-bidi-font-family: "TimesNewRoman""> <p class="MsoNormal"> TIL: DK has INFINITE stamina and is a very tactical fighter.

<p class="MsoNormal"> No seriously, start giving me sources of these arguments or I’ll just ignore you. I have already taken apart you ridiculous intelligence argument, and proved that Knuckles is pretty smart as well. Give it up.

<p class="MsoNormal"> ''' If Knuckles attempts hit-and-run tatics, DK would just use a barrel to shoot himself at high speeds and potentially even catch up. Plus, there's also the fact that there's nothing to stop DK from holding a TNT barrel in front of him to make such tatics fail miserably <span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"ＭＳ明朝";mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"TimesNewRoman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language: EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"> '''

<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"ＭＳ明朝";mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"TimesNewRoman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language: EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0&ab_channel=Bound4Earth 

<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"ＭＳ明朝";mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-fareast;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"TimesNewRoman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language: EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA">​ Finally, Knuckles is severly outmatched in close quarters, as in addition to all his advantages above, 

''' No, he isn't. [http://. http://sonicrunners.sega-net.com/en/index.html Not at all.] What gave you that idea? '''

 ​And finally, his infinite cargo throw (an advanced technique in   SSB64 , which WOULD be allowed, due to the cargo throw coming from his own games and previous foes getting SSB attacks) would keep Knuckles stuck for as long as DK pleases while still harming Knuckles,  

You are literally arguing that an infinite throw exploit in Super Smash Bros. 64 should be used in a Vs. debate... Let that sink in for a second. You want to use gameplay mechanics to argue that DK can chain grab his opponents for an infinite amount of time. I guess that means that Knuckles can fly now. I'm done with you.

''' ​ Now do you see? '''

 ​  That you are incapable of backing up ANY of your claims with evidence? That you lack reading comprehension, forcing me to say the same thing over and over again in a desperate attempt that you would finally listen to me? Yes. I do. <p class="MsoNormal">

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