Talk:Goku VS Superman 2/@comment-26871575-20150830190349

OK, so I have researched both these characters pretty extensively and after a long and careful consideration who have I decided would win?



Goku, as I shall now explain



OK, for the analysis I should mention the rules regarding both Superman, Goku or both



With regards to Goku



1 - The only things of Goku that I'll consider to be canon are the manga, and Battle of Gods/Dragon Ball Super. All abilities from GT, anime filler scenes or the films are ignored UNLESS an event in the canon material suggests that said event in non-canon material is feasible



2 - No power levels will be used for three reasons



I - They are irrelevant, I'm going off of feats from the manga plus anything said by Toriyama



II - There is no true definition of what a power level actually is, hence it's not a good idea to used them to gauge a character's abilities



<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">III - Power levels are not a good reflection of a character's stats and abilities. For example Burter is faster than Jeice, but still has a lower power level. Plus it's not known if Vegeta, after training in gravity equal to Goku also gained an ability to read minds etc.

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">3 - Power scaling shall only be used in such a way that it does not cause any inconsistencies with other events in the story so no Moon busting for Roshi and no solar system busting for Cell (no 40 tom feat btw)

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">With regards to Superman

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">1 - I'll be using only the modern version of Superman, no abilities from Silver Age/ Pre Crisis allowed

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">2 - Power scaling shall be used in an even stricter sense for Superman, since countless writers have written the character over the years and generally have differing opinions regarding his abilities. This of course leads to many inconsistencies and massive amounts of confusion. Hence I shall only be using feats for Superman that lead to the most consistent version of the character (no lifting infinity as a result)

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">And the rules regarding the fight itself

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">1 - Characters have no prior knowledge of each other.

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">2 - Contestants have no outside help from any allies

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">3 - The personalities of both characters are taken into account

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">ANALYSIS

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">So now a comparison of both characters starting with Goku

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">GOKU (CANON)

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Goku has lifting strength at least in the Gigakilo range from this calculation

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111242221/4718096-goku_s_lifting_strength_as_of_dragon_ball_super_by_darkvslight346-d9286u6.png

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">and possibly also in the Yottokilo range (there's a scene where Goku lifts a cube of Katchin the most dense metal in the universe, assuming the same density as a neutron star that puts it in planetary range),

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">In Battle of Gods Whis commented that when angry, Beerus could destroy a solar system in the blink of an eye. This isn't an unreasonable claim considering that Beerus destroyed two stars effortlessly in Resurrection F' with a simple ki blast and wasn't fatigued at all

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://www.mangareader.net/dragon-ball-z-rebirth-of-f/2/16

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">(This is the manga version of the film but it's easier than watching the film)

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Now Goku managed to hold his own for a while against Beerus and traded blows with him which puts his power and durability in solar system regions as well. Even more evidence to this is that Goku tanked Beerus' most powerful ki blast at the end of battle of gods (recall Beerus destroyed two stars with a simple ki blast).

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">He also matched Vegeta’s Garlic Gun (not Galik in the original translation it was the Garlic Gun) which had enough power to destroy the Earth

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v16/c231/4.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v16/c231/5.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v16/c231/11.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">He also punched through King Kai’s planet, which was calculated to be more than 3 times as dense as a white dwarf star, in Battle of Gods

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">For speed Whis managed to travel across a nebula as shown in the video below

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVBWP0M-z5I

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">This means that his speed is measurable in light years per second. Granted there are uncertainties in this measurement due to the size of the nebula the distance between the galaxies and so on. So I lowballed it and came up with a figure 4 million times the speed of light. Beerus managed to travel at 75% of that speed to a planet which puts Beerus at 3 million times the speed of light. Now Beerus was fighting at 70% of his full power meaning that Goku's speed is likely in the region of between 1 and 2 million times the speed of light.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Goku’s reaction time, meanwhile on the lowest possible end, runs into the attosecond range. Trying to take into account all the other unquantifiable increases in power likely puts it into the Yoctosecond range. How did I come across this figure? Allow me to explain; the speed of sight, which is the speed that the human eye can perceive something is 0.05 seconds. The fastest kick ever recorded on camera is 0.3 seconds (by Bruce Lee). Meaning that the fastest that the human body has ever launched an attack is 6 times slower than what the human eye can perceive. This doesn’t just apply to combat, it also applies outside as well. Take formula one drivers, they need to drive cars with max speeds of over 200mph and are capable of navigating said cars through twisting and winding tracks, even though the highest speed that any human could possibly reach on foot is 40mph, which is why we must evaluate raw speed and reaction time separately. Okay, now we know that for someone to blitz another person he must be faster than his sight, meaning s/he should be 6 times faster. If character A can blitz character B, that means A is at least 6 times faster than B. That means if B has time reaction of 0.3 second, A will have time reaction of 0.05 second, if character C can blitz A, then C has time reaction of 0.05 / 6 = 0.008333 second.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Taking this into account allows us to calculate the reaction speed for Goku. Now let's start with Krillin and Roshi, they showed impressive feats of time reaction, where in 1 second, they moved several steps, exchanged several punches and kicks, exchanged words, and stopped to think for 1/5 second, it would be safe to estimate their reaction time at 0.01s

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://www.mangahere.co/manga/dragon_ball/v03/c042/8.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://www.mangahere.co/manga/dragon_ball/v03/c042/9.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://www.mangahere.co/manga/dragon_ball/v03/c042/10.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://www.mangahere.co/manga/dragon_ball/v03/c042/11.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Roshi then blitzed Krillin at full power, putting Roshi reaction time at 1.67x10^{-3}s

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v03/c043/10.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v03/c043/10.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Goku fought on equal footing with Roshi, putting his reaction time at identical levels, however after training with Karin Goku moved so fast that Roshi couldn’t see him, putting Goku’s reaction post Red Ribbon army at 2.778x^{-4}s

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v07/c104/15.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Tien then fought on equal footing with Goku in the second World Martial Arts tournament, but after drinking the Sacred Water Goku became so fast that even Tien couldn’t see Goku, putting Goku’s reaction time during the Piccolo fight at 4.63x10^{-5}s

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v11/c156/5.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v11/c156/6.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Mr Popo then blitzed Goku immediately after the Piccolo fight putting Mr Popo’s reaction time at 7.71x10^{-6}s

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v11/c164/7.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Then during the next tournament Kami (who was much stronger than Mr Popo) couldn’t even see Goku and Piccolo fighting, putting the reaction time of both Goku and Piccolo greater than 1.286x10^{-6}s

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v13/c188/5.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Raditz then blitzed both Goku and Piccolo putting Raditz’s reaction time higher than 2.143x10^{-7}s

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v14/c199/13.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v14/c199/14.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v14/c200/12.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Nappa, who was much stronger than Raditz, was speed blitzed by Goku without the Kiao-Ken, putting Goku at Saiyan’s  saga w/o Kaio-Ken at 3.572x10^{-8}s

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v15/c224/6.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v15/c224/15.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Vegeta was much stronger than Goku without the Kaio-Ken and after two Zenkai power ups (first from fighting on Earth and secondly from fighting Zarbon) was blitzed by members of the Ginyu force, putting the reaction time of the Ginyu force at much higher than 5.954x10^{-9}s

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c273/5.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c275/15.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c276/7.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Goku after training in 100G blitzed two members of the Ginyu force at the same time, putting Goku’s reaction higher than 9.92x10^{-10}s at that point.

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c280/6.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c280/7.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c280/8.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c281/15.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Piccolo was at least equal to Goku after fusing with Nail (likely much stronger). After Frieza went into his third form Frieza was able to blitz Piccolo, putting third form Frieza’s reaction time at 1.654x10^{-10}s

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v21/c302/10.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v21/c302/11.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Gohan matched Frieza’s third form in power after getting angry, yet he, Piccolo and Vegeta (who became at least as strong as Gohan when angry after a Zenkai boost) were all blitzed by Frieza’s 4th form, giving Frieza’s final form a reaction time of 2.756x10^{-11}.

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v21/c304/14.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v21/c304/15.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v21/c305/3.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v21/c305/14.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Goku matched Frieza’s final form in speed and power initially, yet after powering up to 50% of his full power Frieza effortlessly speed blitzed Goku, giving Frieza at 50% full power a reaction time superior to 4.594x10^{-12}s

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v21/c312/7.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v22/c318/4.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">After going Super Saiyan, Goku blitzed Frieza at 50% full power, giving SSJ Goku a reaction time superior to 7.657x10^{-13}s

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v22/c319/3.html

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">SSJ Trunks was shown to be equal to SSJ Goku in terms of speed and power, but Android 17 (who was stronger and faster than Trunks) was blitzed by Imperfect Cell, giving Imperfect Cell a reaction time superior to 1.276x10^{-13}s

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangayou.com/mangaeden-en/dragon-ball-6/reader?page=387

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">After absorbing Android 17, Cell transformed into his much more powerful Semi-Perfect form, but was still outclassed by Vegeta. However after reaching his Perfect form he blitzed Vegeta effortlessly, making  Perfect Cell’s reaction time vastly superior to 2.126x10^{-14}s.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangayou.com/mangaeden-en/dragon-ball-6/reader?page=399

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangayou.com/mangaeden-en/dragon-ball-6/reader?page=401

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">When powering up to SSJ2 Gohan blitzed Perfect Cell, giving SSJ2 Gohan a reaction time far higher than 3.545x10^{-15}s

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangayou.com/mangaeden-en/dragon-ball-6/reader?page=425

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Gohan was speed blitzed by Fat Buu, giving Fat Buu a reaction time of 5.908x10^{-16}s

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v31/c462/9.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v31/c462/11.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Then Goku at SSJ3 was shown to be able to speed blitz Fat Buu giving SSJ3 Goku a reaction time much better than 9.846x10^{-17}s

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v32/c474/9.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Beerus  at minimum power then blitzed SSJ3 Goku without any effort, putting Beerus’ reaction time at 1.64x10^{-17}s, then Goku fought on equal footing with Beerus at 70% full power likely making his reaction time vastly superior to even this and SSGSS surpasses this

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">So, on the lowest possible end we have Goku with a reaction time of 16 attoseconds as a SSJG disregarding multiple unquantifiable power ups along the way. Accounting for all the unquantifiable power ups would almost certainly push this into the Zeptosecond range, likely the Yoctosecond range.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Other feats of durability include trading blows with Frieza who split an entire planet in half with just two fingers

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v21/c313/3.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v21/c313/5.html

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">So in summary we have lifting strength at least in the Gigakilo range and possibly also in the Yottokilo, Destructive capacity in the Solar System level+ range, speed in the massively FTL range, reaction time in the atto-yoctosecond range and durability in the Solar System level+ range.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">So now for post crisis Superman's feats (I'll use him more as a reference since he's stronger than New 52 Superman).

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<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">SUPERMAN (POST-CRISIS)

In terms of strength he's benched pressed the weight of the Earth for 5 days

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132106/2752790-2752780-captura_de_tela_de_2012_12_14_18_27_58.png

Moved the weight of the entire plantoids, moons and terrestrial planets before

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2715158

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-2715159

And has moved the Mageddon gears (probably the size of a star)

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">For damage output he's

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Casually busted a few planets

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">imgur.com/a/34wer

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Has heat vision rivalling the output of the Sun

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">i.imgur.com/r5iwPZQ.jpg

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">And can hit with the force of a white dwarf star using the infinite mass punch

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://www.screwattack.com/news/supermans-infinite-mass-punch-how-powerfull

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">For speed he's

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Tagged the Flash

<span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125391/4308775-jl_02_0013.jpg

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Escaped a double black hole

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111128444/3588808-1340779-154613_lightspeed2vm5_super.jpg

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">He's also flown from the Earth to the Sun in 2 mins I believe, and he flew from Vega to Earth in a few mins, however in that instance he was in front of a star with a much higher energy output than the Sun, thereby boosting his abilities.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">In terms of reaction time he’s been shown to have nanosecond reaction time most consistently

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/27470/1644856-supesracingphoton.jpg

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112612/3316171-3830098818-32858.jpg

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111132213/3589250-7255919761-JgwBb.jpg

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Batman also estimated Superman’s reaction to be in the zeptosecond range

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">So we have Superman’s reaction time in the range of nanosecond-zeptosecond

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">For durability he's survived multiple Supernovas

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/3/33308/886146-supermandurability15b.jpg

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">He’s also tanked the force of New Krypton exploding (image unavailable)

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Also tanked two planets colliding and was only briefly knocked out

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://media.animevice.com/uploads/1/12234/353943-supesclash1_super.jpg

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Also he’s survived the recoil of his infinite mass punch, which was equal to between 1,000 to 10,000 Supernovas

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">All these together means that Superman’s durability is around Solar System to multi-solar system levels

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Overall Modern Superman has lifting strength in the Yottokilo+ range (planetary level+), speed in the Massively FTL range, reaction time in the nano-zeptosecond range, damage output at star level normally and star level+ with the infinite mass punch and solar system level+ to multi-solar system level in terms of durability.

With such well balanced stats it's hard to decide right there and then who has the advantage, so we need to look at other things as well.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;"> OTHER FACTORS

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Next we look at the main deciding factor in this fight, which is Superman's connection to the Sun. Provided that Superman has a constant connection to the Sun he can increase his stats with no upward limit. The question then is would Goku be able to figure out Superman's connection to the Sun and would he be able to deal with it?

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">True Superman could fly closer to the sun and even dive in there to increase his abilities, however, Goku has a number of ways to counter that. Firstly when considering the way Superman's durability works, he has a bio-electric aura that surrounds his body, everytime Superman tanks a blow his bio-matrix absorbs an equivalent amount of solar energy stored in his cells to endure it. This is how Doomsday was able to beat Superman in their first encounter and why certain people (like Darkseid) have been able to beat him before. If someone can exert more damage faster than his body can absorb energy, he's in trouble. Granted if he flew into the Sun he'd have an advantage. I believe it takes 15 mins for him to triple his power when inside the Sun, so it takes him 5 mins to increase his power by 100% in a yellow main sequence star (faster for a blue one).

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">However, even in this case there are a couple of things Goku could do. Firstly, given his durability, he should theoretically be able to dive in after Superman and punch him out of it. Also another thing to consider is his ability to sense ki. He can sense the energy of all natural life forms, meaning that it's highly likely he'd be able to figure out Superman's connection to the Sun (he'd be able to feel Superman's power increasing as he got closer to the Sun). If Goku managed to figure it out before Superman dived into the Sun he could use instant transmission to move Superman to an area without sunlight. In this case where Superman entered the Sun then Goku still has a counter for that, namely the Spirit bomb. In the time that it takes Superman to power up from the Sundip Goku could use instant transmission somewhere across the universe and gather enough energy to match Superman's increase in power. Now I've heard many people claim that the Spirit Bomb is ineffective against those who are good, but even then there are still some problems with that. Recall that in the Saiyan Saga that Goku had to tell Gohan to deflect the spirit bomb, if the bomb doesn't effect those with no evil then why did Goku bother telling Gohan to deflect it? Most likely that someone with no evil ki could deflect the blast, but they would have to know to bounce it back. But even then Goku could potentially use the energy in another way, recall in the Super Android 13 film that he absorbed the Spirit Bomb's energy to increase his power. Granted, this only happened in a film and should therefore be considered non-canon, however, there are several instances of such events occurring in Dragon Ball. In Battle of Gods, for instance, not only did Goku stop Beerus' strongest attack, he also absorbed the energy from it. Plus consider in the Frieza fight Piccolo successfully absorbed ki from both Krillan and Gohan

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangayou.com/mangahere/dragon-ball-1/reader?page=328

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Meaning it's likely that Goku can absorb the energy from the bomb.

Oh and before you mention it, instant transmission does NOT require concentrated focus to work, it requires a ki signature to lock on to, once the person senses the signature they can move to said source instantly. The reason it failed in the Buu saga was because the massive ki blast of Buu's was blotting out Goku's ability to sense a ki signature. In fact Goku has used instant transmission under pressure quite a few times, against Cell

http://mangamoon.com/dragonball/chapter-400/7/

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">Against Kid Buu

http://www.mangareader.net/dragon-ball/511/6

And against Beerus (he spammed it in that case)

This grants his a huge range of options in combat, it allows Goku to take Superman away from the Sun, and it allows him to bypass Superman's speed.

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">With regards to Superman's superior intellect, indeed he is academically smarter, but Goku is a genius when it comes to fighting. Goku has the ability to analyse an opponent's fighting style and is extremely adept at finding an opponent's weakness, consider for instance this fight with Tien

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangayou.com/mangahere/dragon-ball-1/reader?page=185

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">or during his fight against Tao

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">http://mangayou.com/mangahere/dragon-ball-1/reader?page=97

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;">These are a few examples among many others. When comparing the two I'm inclined to say that Goku's combat experience and combat intelligence, give him the edge over Superman's academic intelligence. Put it this way, who would you trust to come up with a winning strategy, a university professor or a battle-hardened general?

Now in the case of going up against each other in a fight where neither has any prior knowledge of one another then we have to look at fighting styles and how both of them typically deal with unknowns and new opposition. Superman's fighting skill again tends to fluctuate wildly depending on the writer's interpretation of him. On the average he tends to be skilled as a fighter, however, no where near as much as Goku. When comparing how both would do in a straight up fight the advantage again goes to Goku. Goku's fighting style is unlike anything that Superman has fought before. His style of fighting is based on Kamisenin-Ryu which is not strictly a martial art at all. It is the outward expression of his physical prowess and ability to react to his opponent, with each fight specifically honed to his opponent's skill set.

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v03/c032/8.html

What makes Goku such an amazing martial artist is his ability to perceive his opponent and learn their strategies and moves instantly even after just a single viewing. Here are some examples

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v04/c048/3.html

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v04/c048/4.html

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v04/c048/6.html

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v04/c048/7.html

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v11/c132/6.html

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v11/c132/7.html

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v11/c132/10.html

Among many others

He's also used the environment in combat to defeat his opponents before further evidence that he'd take Superman away from the Sun

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v06/c065/7.html

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v06/c065/8.html

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v06/c065/9.html

http://mangafox.me/manga/dragon_ball/v06/c065/10.html

Now I've heard people claim that Goku would allow Superman to dive into the Sun and increase his power, due to his supposed tendency to avoid unfair advantages, well the only time Goku has ever really done that is when he's sure he can win. In the case of Frieza prior to going Super Saiyan Goku knew that Frieza was still at 50% power but still tried to destroy him with the spirit bomb. After going Super Saiyan Goku did indeed let Frieza reach 100%, partly for wanting to see Frieza's full power, but it was more to do with wanting to avenge Krillin, he wanted to humiliate Frieza by beating him at his best (at the time Goku didn't know that Krillin could be revived)

http://www.mangatown.com/manga/dragon_ball/v22/c321/4.html

http://www.mangatown.com/manga/dragon_ball/v22/c325/9.html

In the case of his fight against Superman here's what I see happening, after fighting for a while Superman ends up in the Sun. Goku realises the connection between Supes and the Sun and absorbs ki from a spirit bomb to counter it. As Superman's about to clash with Goku, he uses instant transmission to take Superman somewhere without sunlight (like a place in the afterlife) Goku then says something like "I figured out your connection to the Sun, here there's no sunlight to charge you. We're about even so now it's just a fight to the finish to see who's better"

<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:12px;"> One other note to mention is Goku's use of ki, an alternate spelling of the word is chi. Superman has no experience in dealing with chi. In fact Lex Luthor in one story had a theory that chi could cripple or kill the Man of Steel

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111213729/4385959-4428086238-wk7sl.jpg

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Now a crucial point in this point is the very definition of chi. Chi in this manner is said to be an Earth energy, similar to the way that ki is described in the Dragon Ball universe, as a natural energy possessed by all living things

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Ki

Meaning that the two are very similar. Granted Superman has never fought a ki/chi user, so it's pure speculation as to whether or not Lex is right or not. But it's feasible that Superman would at least be vulnerable to ki in the same way that he's vulnerable to magic (Superman is not weak to magic, just vulnerable) which gives Goku an advantage. One also needs to take into account the sheer overwhelming diversity of the ki attacks. He can create beams that change direction in mid-flight, fire off multiple blasts in every direction, produce invisible ki blasts, create energy discs like Krillin, and release his ki from every point on his body in omni-directional explosions etc.

Compared to Superman's abilities, he primarily relies on his punches and heat vision in combat. He also has the Super Breath (likely not going to be a factor in this fight given Goku's resilience and adaptivity/speed etc) X-Ray vision, super senses, the infinite mass punch and the Super Flare. The X-ray vision is unlikely to come into play due to Goku having note showed any pressure point weaknesses in the past (the only one was tail, which he overcame). In his fight against Tien for instance he tanked multiple blows that should have been pressure points

http://mangayou.com/mangahere/dragon-ball-1/reader?page=135

However, there are multiple times when Pressure point attacks have worked, like when Vegeta knocked out Goku, Goten and Trunks in the Buu saga, also Beerus knocked out SS3 Goku with a simple chop to the back of the neck. PIS maybe? There is a more feasible explanation, which is based on how ki works. By focusing their ki the Dragon Ball characters can increase their durability (same principle applies to strength and speed as well), in a manner similar to Superman's bio-matrix, if the characters of Dragon Ball drop their guard by lowering their ki, then they are vulnerable (like what happened with Goku), or if the opposing character is stronger than the defender, they can supply a force that can overwhelm the defender's ki. In the case of Superman his punches are on average large planet level, which Goku should be durable enough to endure, if Goku were to drop his guard then they would work, but it a one-on-one Death Battle style confrontation that's not likely to be an issue.

The infinite mass punch is infeasible due to three reasons

1 - He wouldn't use it close to Earth since it would destroy the Earth, he'd first have to take Goku out of the solar system (which he wouldn't be able to do thanks to the instant transmission). Even assuming he managed that it still wouldn't work due to 2 and 3

2 - He needs to travel constantly under the speed of light for it to work. Goku always comes out FTL and could therefore easily dodge it

3 - The punch has been shown to knock Superman out before, meaning if he used it and missed or it didn't kill Goku, he'd be finished

and the Super Flare while powerful is very risky due to it leaving Superman completely vulnerable for 24 hours, making it highly impractical during a fight

Oh, and another thing is that Superman wouldn't be able to lobotomize Goku with his heat vision, as I've pointed out it's only star level in terms of power, compared to Goku's durability, which is solar system level

Now we come to the final point, in both the videos done by Screwattack the same reason given was that Goku has limits, while Superman doesn't. That's quite misleading, because Superman does have limits, in the sense that he's limited by how much solar radiation he absorbs, he can't access limitless power immediately (if he could then he would already be Superman Prime). If Superman were well and truly without any limitations then he would be able to beat anyone in the DC universe at any time, any place, regardless of circumstance, which he can't. Many characters in DC, like Nekron, The Presence, Lucifer Morningstar, The Anti-Monitor, Imperiex Prime and the Spectre would be able to kill Superman in a one-on-one confrontation fairly easily. Superman would always need time and solar radiation to increase his powers, those are limitations that he can't overcome. In that sense he's reached his full potential. Goku on the otherhand always finds a way to breaks any limit, he always finds a way to overcome any problem he's faced with. The whole core of Goku is that with enough effort there is no obstacle that cannot be overcome and that hard work will overcome talent or social status. In that sense Goku's potential has no limits. So what happens when you place someone who has reached their full potential against someone whose potential has no limits? Well, then only one can go further beyond.

If you wish to respond, then please do in a civilized manner with no swearing or trolling, thanks