Talk:Mega Man VS Astro Boy/@comment-26363797-20151108180651/@comment-26363797-20151108181324

Yeah. I'm about to quote what Ultraguy said(And it's pretty long):

OK I’m just gonna start off by saying that I’m honestly a bit worried people might be overestimating Megaman in some respects and are gaining unrealistic expectations regarding how DEATH BATTLE will probably analyze him. I feel as if a lot of the feats being used to prop him up have….. Vague aspects, parameters we can’t objectively know, or events that can be interpreted in multiple ways. I’ve listed most of the major examples below. I’ll get more into the actual verdict itself after I address it all.

1.   Megaman flew through the thickness of the asteroid belt or the Kuiper belt in Megaman V, during the Space Rush level when he was chasing down the Wily Star and avoiding space rocks. This gives him definitive MFTL reaction speeds due to the distance he flew while dodging attacks.

First of all Wily Star is WAAAAY too huge fromMega's perspective from right before the level starts for it to be so many light years away. The only possible way to reconcile that would be to presume it had a RIDICULOUSLY large size and mass, easily surpassing all the planets in our solar system and eclipsing even the sun (which of course in itself would bring up a host of logical problems).

Of course the Wily Star has never been portrayed to be that big in ANY official Megaman media anyway, so I don’t see why that should even be an argument. Even given Megaman V’s wonkey scaling, the fortress wasn’t much larger than an average Wily lair found in the game itself when it first appears. It also wasn’t nearly that big during[https://youtu.be/43lGruWv-pI?t=68 Megaman V’s ending. ] During the station’s short unnamed appearance in the Megaman “Wish Upon a Star” OVA, it was also much smaller, being around the same size as a small castle at best. In some official trading card games produced by namco Bandai, the Wily Star was again portrayed as being the size of a small fortress. The only place where the Wily star is even remotely large in the Megaman Archie Comics (It’s around planet size there). But that was an American made piece of Megaman media many years after the game came out. Not only that, but Wily Star only made one short appearance, and had a huge deviation regarding its history, with it belonging to the Staroids (alien robots), and not even have been being created by Wily in the first place.

Now I realize Megaman refers to the Wily Star as “What is that star?” in text (during a bout of surprise when it first appears I might add), but there are a couple of questions you need to ask regarding that. For one, if you’re taking Megaman’s word for it literally because of the functionality of his robotic brain, you’re basically saying that he can see objects from millions of lightyears away so clearly he can accurately measure their volume from one side. That’s technically not impossible, but it’s a bold claim that would require tons of specialized observation techniques and tech on Mega’s end we’ve never been told he has. There’s also the question of if this line is even worded the same way in original Japanese version of the version, as if it isn’t that theory just falls apart. I’d also point out the Wily star isn’t called that because of its size. Like the Death Egg from the Sonic series, the name and general aesthetics of the base are CLEARLY a nod to the Death Star from Star Wars.

Next, it's not even clear where exactly Megaman begins the Space Rush stage. I’ve had some people say it starts from earth, though honestly I doubt Wily would have fired his initial shot from the Wily Star on Megaman if he had been on there. Which, on another note had the Wily Star been as big as people are suggesting, and the fight had been on Earth, Wily would have completely fried the surface of the planet, if not outright destroyed it given how big the face cannon would have been. Then I thought it was Pluto, Neptune, or Uranus based on the names of the Staroids you fight in the highlighted planets in Megaman’s stage select screen. Then I realized the I made a mistake in my observations, and that the planet Terra’s fight took place on wasn’t in fact any of those I just listed, and was in fact depicted as smaller than the planet pluto on the select screen. This meant it probably wasn't any of the planets in our solar system, particularly earth since the developers kept which planets were larger/smaller than each other consistent on the select screen. This made me believe that it could have in fact been a smaller celestial body like Ceres, though I wasn’t entirely sure.

Then I finally came to the conclusion that all the above are just general theories with no conclusive backing in any direction. The game itself doesn’t really specify where the level took place. It could have been a random planet or asteroid in fuck ass nowhere. Heck it could have been the unnamed section of space, where the ruins the Staroids were originally discovered on resided at for all we know. In fact, the area of space that the level took place in isn’t specified either. It’s also worth pointing out asteroids and other space debris aren’t found exclusively in the asteroid belt, so that’s kind of an issue to consider as well. Actually on another note IN REAL LIFE asteroids aren't in compact spaces like they were in this game, they're fairly spread out. You can make an argument that the developers didn't know that, but the second you say that you just open another can of worms about author intent. In the OVA the Wily Star itself makes the asteroids, maybe the developers just meant for them to be a cool dodgeable object and nothing matches up to real life.

……..Look I’m sure you guys get the point by now. This feat requires a lot of assumptions and just doesn’t make sense when brought to its logical conclusions at high ends. I honestly think it’s a VERY BAD IDEA to lift Mega’s reactions to MFTL because of it.

2. Megaman lifted up the entirety of Wily’s castle when the ceiling came down in Megaman 5

I think some of the explanations I’ve seen for this are plausible, but I’m not sure I completely buy it.

You can’t see anything to judge outright during the scene itself except for the fact the ceiling caved in. The building itself also doesn’t fully fall apart until after Megaman and Dr. Light get outside a fair distance away. Which I think would imply the majority of the building was stable and that the building didn’t lose all integrity until a few minutes later. Actual visual depictions of this event in other media also don’t match up. In fact, in the Megaman 5 manga it was actually just a segment of the ceiling that fell, that mega had to catch. Proto then shot it off him allowing him to get away.

I’d also point out that that levels for Wily castle in Megaman 5 are filled with winding passages with tons of different rooms. A specific section collapsing first before the main body went down is well within reason.

3.      Sunstars death explosion in Megaman V was planet to sun level, which scales to Megaman’s destructive capability.

Ok, this is based entirely on how big you think the Wily Star is, and honestly there is no official size given for it at any point in any Megaman media, not even the original game. Though honestly speaking like I said the Wily Star hasn’t been portrayed as anywhere close to larger than an average fortress in any media but archie comics. Which, as I said is sorta an outlier anyway due to differences in origin...

I also have to agree with Akuma’s complaints about these feats. I’m not sure I would count a fusion reactor going critical and having an uncontrolled chemical explosion towards the destructive power that Sunstar himself possess. I also have to put down the idea that sunstar held the explosion back somehow, as literally his lines in the game itself are

Sunstar: Maybe... but I will never know. My fusion reactor is going critical and when it does, it will destroy this entire fortress.

Mega Man: Sunstar...

Sunstar: Leave now!

It says nothing about him holding the explosion back.

4.  Megaman survived Wily’s fortress outright exploding on him in Megaman 8

There are no explosions at the end of Megaman 8. The only thing you can see is various debris crashing in the background. The entire screen then whites out and clips to Megaman and Duo being outside with no explanation as to how they got there. Megaman clearly didn’t just get flung out there either, he’s lying right on his back, with no crater, with no debris in his general vicinity. It seems pretty clear to me that Dou either saved megaman during the screen cut, or that at best he dug him out of the tower’s collapse. I’m willing to bet a lot of money that if I could get my hands on the Rockman 8 manga, this would also be shown to be the case.

5.      Megaman is overpowered in Megaman Gigamix due to the more over the top nature of the final showdown.

The track record of Megaman and most of the robot masters actually isn’t all that great in Gigamix. When about two dozen robot masters attacked Duo all at once, they got STOMPED. When Megaman tried fighting even 1 Staroid with backup he got STOMPED. When Megaman had a one on one duel with Terra towards the middle of the manga, he got STOMPED so hard he got taken down without landing even a single hit.

None of the standard Megaman characters had even a remote chance of beating Duo or the Staroids that entire manga under normal circumstances. They were only able to put up a fight AFTER using macguffins called Energy Crystals to power themselves up. Every person who fought successfully in the final battle needed these crystals to stand a chance, and the characters themselves even stated that this was the case in story. Not only that, the corruptive properties they had made it unlikely they kept them installed after the fight was over. It’s also worth noting that nobody did anything close to blowing up a planet in that manga. The best feat was towards the end with Mega and Sunstar’s beam clashes, which each created storms around the size of mountains at most (nothing suggest continent wide storms). Even if this was included, it would only be fair to give Astro one time upgrades as well, like the hyper adaptive body from the manga chapters.

On another note the ability to stay in the right state of mind and properly control the crystal’s powers affected combat performance, which is why some robots weren’t nearly as powerful even when they had one installed or why Bass still struggled to fight the Staroids afters stealing 4. It’s actually noted in story he lacked control, which kept him from being very effective.

6.   Megaman scales to Duo

Look, I’ll admit Megaman has fought Duo to an extent, but to as far as to say he scales to him is a bit of a stretch. Megaman needed to exploit a weakness placed on Duo’s body after he had already fought a large majority of Wily’s robots in Gigamix and in their original fight in Megaman 8, Mega explicitly noted that Duo held back while fighting him. Additionally while Duo was a playable character in Power Fighters 2, that game came out before his appearances in the main series proper. Also while that story makes reference to Megaman, Bass, Protoman and Duo forming a team against Wily, you can’t actually play out a scenario like that for yourself. In actuality you can only play and get an ending with him singularly or paired up with one other person, and even in story it’s implied more that he goes on his own or just joins the fight to help rather than purely relying on the others to a significant degree.

From what I could find of the Megaman 8 manga, Duo was able to easily one shot Bass and another robot Megaman himself had trouble taking down. He was clearly above the others by a fair margin.

I suppose you could maybe try to correlate some more obscure appearances like Rockman strategy, though you'd have to look at that from the bottom...

7. Misc

I also can’t help but feel that too much emphasis is being placed on what robot master weapons can be speculated to do based on descriptions, rather than the feats and actual applications of said weapons that have been shown to us ourselves by the robot masters or Megaman. I’m talking about things like the black hole weaponry being used as the base of so many physical calcs, the centaur flash, ETC. For example we’re treating the black hole bomb like a real black hole, but in megaman 9 itself you can neutralize the attack with a block of concrete from the concrete shot. Centaur man also focuses more on teleportation or time stop when using his weapon, with the whole flashing energy pulse thing being something Mega does on his own exclusively. Is that flash like a big screen wide space warp, is it like a pulse of gravity or energy caused by space/time powers, ect. It might not seem like much, but the distinction in questions like that is important, and unless you have actual examples of it being used in haxy ways, it’s a bit hard to gauge anything.

There’s a bit too much focus on what characters have claimed they will eventually do, compared to what they’ve actually done too. In addition, I’m not entirely sure about Mega’s “destroying a continent” feat from Megaman 3 GBA, due to the nature of the graphics and the fact it honestly looks more like Wily’s crash made the explosion.