Talk:Mario VS Sonic/@comment-68.61.88.218-20150707050132/@comment-25430354-20150720030343

There are a number of problems with that assessment:

Knuckles one shotted Hyper Sonic at a time where Sonic was far less powerful than he is today. Back in Adventure Sonic needed Super Sonic to defeat Perfect Chaos, where in Generations he can do it without the Emeralds. Sonic's overall abilities and skills have increased over time. White Tanooki Mario can only happen if Mario dies 5 times, and extra lives aren't usually featured in DBs.

The castle feat is highly up for debate. First off there was no measurement for it given, second it's inconsistent. When Mario goes into the castle in Mario world, it's humongous and stories above him. When he's done, it's only a few feet taller than him. Not to mention Sonic's capable of somersaulting through metal with the flame ring and even without it can effortlessly punch or homing attack through metal robots without it, as seen in multiple games and Sonic Battle.

Mario's supernova feat is also head-scratching. Even if the Luma's didn't protect Mario from the explosion despite the heavy implication, what's stopping us from assuming Rosalina didn't protect Mario given her number of abilities? Mario's been knocked out by much lighter things than that.

Omega  has calculated that Sonic is able to outrun light speed in Sonic Colors. Sonic is also able to react and sidestep in that speed which requires very fast reactions and overall speed.

Sonic's arrogant but he can think things through and overcome bosses by highlighting specific weaknesses and strategizing. In terms of handling their enemies they're about even in this category. He's had plenty of battle experience to overcome a number of situations. Plus with some of the fooled disguises and Peach kidnappings, Mario's had his shortcomings of intelligence as well.

Experience is highly up for debate. Mario's fought as Baby Mario, but we don't know if he's fought through his child and teen years as all the Mario games feature him as an adult with only a few as a baby (and most of those times he's being carried by Yoshi). And the age Sonic started fighting is also unspecified, as Sonic is a different species.

While I think Mario does have a vaster arsenal, there's two issues with your assessment of his skills and arsenal. One is allowing him to have the Crystal Stars. They were the primary plot mcguffin of Paper Mario 2 (Which I would make a point about canon but I won't), with no indication Mario took them home afterwards to use their power again, it's like saying Sonic held onto the World Rings or Excalibur after those adventures. Second is about Mario being a skilled swordsman. Aside from fencing in Mario and Sonic at the Olympics, when has Mario wielded a sword in the main series? Hammers aren't the same thing.

Sonic's Super Sonic ability doesn't strictly run on 60 seconds and highly varies. In Sonic Advance Super Sonic's shown to possibly last days. Also gods are a title and don't immediately determine a power set. What's a god in one universe doesn't mean it will be as powerful in another, or even the universe it's in.

The most flawed argument you have is that Sonic can't perform chaos control on his own in base form. He did exactly that in the game it debuted in, SA2. He used Chaos Control to escape the exploding capsule heading towards Earth in base form with even a fake chaos emerald. He also demonstrated it in the boss fight with Shadow at Final Rush. In Sonic 06, Shadow needed Sonic's chaos control in order to time travel, which requires two Chaos Controls. SA2 alone disproves the "Sonic can't do it in base form" argument.

The "Mario can withstand the sun" has two problems. One, as impressive as Mario was close to it, he wasn't standing on the surface of that, and two, given the twists of Mario physics and astronomy and how the sun is in this one, it's difficult to say if it has the same properties as the actual sun. It's treated like the lava in the Mario games. Mario's breathing under water has been inconsistent as he can in the 2d but he can't in the 3d games, as is Sonic's swimming as in Sonic Colors he's shown to infinitely jump underwater or boost to replicate swimming. This also relies on the circumstance that they would be there to begin with. And even if it was in space Sonic can breath and navigate it as good if not better than Mario (as Mario primarily relied on the Lumas and power stars to do so). If the Mario series wasn't so inconsistent and clarified a number of things then we wouldn't be stuck here.