User blog:SuperNintendude/Mayro vs Sanic debunk debunked

*sigh* I'm reaaaaaaaally sorry that I have to bring back this debate, but all the terrible "debunks" on YouTube has forced my hand. I personally believe that Mario would be able to win in more scenarios than Sonic, because of his superior weapons, armour, and skills.

Okay, so if you’re still reading this you probably want a more in depth explanation. So prepare yourself because this is gonna be a doozy.

Mario
Before we begin, this will probably be very controversial because I'm going to be using stuff from Paper Mario and Mario Party, so I feel the need to address this... by linking a post another person made.

https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Metal875/The_Marioverse%27s_Canonicity

^ This post up here pretty much answers everything regarding Mario's canon.

With all that out of the way, let's-a-go. To kick things off for Attack Potency, Mario punting Larry's castle goes to Large Town level+ (because the castles aren’t fully captured in SNES glory due to graphical limitations and are way bigger on the inside), Dark Bowser creating a storm across the Mushroom Kingdom gets to Island level (Mario > Bowser > Dark Bowser, plus Mario and Luigi fought the Dark Fawful virus, and after beating it Dark Bowser lost a lot of his power), Yoshi and Mario as a literal infant can endure the destruction of a Castle visible from the world map alongside mountains, as well as being launched to the moon, can compare to DK's moon punching feat, and Wario tanking the Shake King's explosion (Moon level).

Mario has defeated multiple bosses empowered by Power Stars (Example: King Bob-omb), even when he himself doesn't have any. Power Stars have the power of 10 Foe as seen here. Power Stars directly imbue their power to anyone who wields them. Mario also scales to Yoshi, who once hit Raphael the Raven so hard that he turned into a constellation. However this feat only comes around Star level, as the constellation consists of only one star. Other people who were empowered by Power Stars, such as Bowser, were able to create pocket dimensions that contained a sun and a starry sky. In fact, Mario has fought a ton of people that can create, destroy, or warp starry skies (Which would be Multi-Solar System level). Power Stars at their peak are comparable to Lumas, as Lumas turn into Power Stars. Lumas can also turn into galaxies, are capable of producing "galaxy-rattling" shots, and are responsible for slowing down the universe-destroying black hole at the end of the original Super Mario Galaxy (Although it took a ton of Lumas sacrificing themselves).

The Grand Stars are far superior to Power Stars, which Lumas can turn into as well as galaxies, and Mario defeated dozens of enemies powered by the Grand Stars. Grand Stars are actually the sole things capable of powering a star potent enough to keep the Lumas alive, putting it quite far above them (Galaxy level).

Mario is a Star Child. By being a Star Child, Mario has a star embedded within his heart that grants him sufficient enough power to conquer the universe, given that the other six Star Children are with him. So, each Star Child has the power to conquer 1/7 of the universe—billions of galaxies (Multi-Galaxy level).

Now, this is consistent Star and Galaxy stuff that’s pretty clear for Mario… but, I honestly think we can go further beyond.

Mario defeated Bowser during the events of Super Mario Galaxy, where he tanked the collapse of his own Galaxy Reactor, which was stated to threaten the very fabric of the universe whilst extremely fatiguedhttps://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/character-stats-and-profiles/images/0/02/Prima_Guide_Edited.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/525?cb=20170716024721

Bowser's Galaxy Reactor is repeatedly called a universal threat https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/character-stats-and-profiles/images/f/f3/Prima_Guide_Edited_2.png/revision/latest?cb=20170818164017 https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/character-stats-and-profiles/images/c/cc/Prima_Guide_Edited_3.png/revision/latest?cb=20170818164028and was stated to decide "The Fate of the Universe," solidifying it at this tier. Mario damaged Bowser to the point of unconsciousness, so he definitely scales (Universe level+).

In Super Mario Galaxy 2, Bowser consumed a Grand Star, becoming far superior to himself in the original, pushing him to Multi-Universal tier. Said Grand Star enabled him the power to consume the universe w/ a black hole with zero effort, and Mario still prevailed, once again damaging him to unconsciousness. The worlds are indeed entire universes, as Lubba states that you must travel through space-time in order to reach unknown worlds.

Mario defeated Culex, who is stated as "the Master of Space and Time" in the official guide booklet, page 64, and in the Japanese translation, states that he holds time from its beginning to its end and that he holds the power of creation throughout the Marioverse (Universe level+).

Mario defeated the Shadow Queen, whose power was greater than that of the Crystal Stars due to creating them. The Crystal Stars were stated to have been able to reality warp the planet and the heavens, and was even stated to hold the very essence of the heavens. This refers to all that is. Similar to the Bible, "heavens" refers to the real, ms above the Earth: the atmosphere, the Sun, the moon, the stars, and all that’s in outer space. Holding the essence of the universe and being able to warp it is definitely at this level. (Universe level+).

Mario defeated Mega Dragon Bowser, and destroyed the Megabug. The former is the form the latter took after absorbing Spawny [who in turn was merged with the SupaMerge Headset] and Bowser. By absorbing the SupaMerge Headset, the Megabug attained its fusionism powers, which was capable of merging the Marioverse with the real world (Multi-Universe level).

<p style="text-align:center;">Mario compares to Wario, who defeated Rudy the Clown who was stated as a threat to the music box world and the "outer one," which is the actual Marioverse. Thus, he is a threat to two entire universes (Universe level+). Wario also defeated the Black Jewel, who erased the universe and replaced it with its own at the beginning of Wario World. To back this up, at the ending, when its realm is erased, the universe doesn't return. Sure, it's implied that only Wario's castle was eliminated, but the opening and ending contradict that, as well as the fact that, after his castle was destroyed, the outside was an empty void as well. And when they say they'll recreate his castle, Wario is amazed. So, they had to of done something amazing, since he wasn't even impressed by Black Jewel's feats. It would also be consistent considering that, according to story, the Spritelings managed to defeat and imprison Black Jewel (also Universe level+). Since Mario is Wario's rival, and they're both Star Children, Mario should scale.

<p style="text-align:center;">From this, you can't really call Universal+ Mario wank because there's just too much evidence for it, and even without it Mario should still be Multi-Galaxy at least. Even if you disagree with Mario and Paper Mario being the same person, in Paper Jam, Mario (and Luigi) literally fight on par, so he should scale. Also, the final boss is literally Bowser using Paper Bowser as armor. Paper Bowser compares to Paper Mario for obvious reasons. Even without the Paper Mario feats Mario still has multiple other Universal+ feats under his belt to support this tiering.

<p style="text-align:center;">So that concludes the list of Mario's insane Attack Potency feats. Durability is pretty much the same as AP.

<p style="text-align:center;">What does Mario have in terms of speed? Well, bare minimum Mario should be billions FTL thanks to him sticking the landing of the galaxy flight in SMG2. I’d argue he should be higher considering he can keep pace with Bowser’s ships post SMG1 which moved in tandem with Rosa’s Comet Observatory (said Observatory flew to the center of the universe in a couple of seconds and this is calced to be 131 Quadrillionic).

<p style="text-align:center;">Now that we're done here, onto-

Base Sonic
<p style="text-align:center;">For starters, Sonic smashes a Hilltop in CD’s Opening, and Chaos floods parts of Station Square, which both should be about MCB-Town. All fine and dandy, but we also have Black Doom summoning storms in the opening of Shadow the Hedgehog, and some cloud parting from Blaze and Iblis after they leave in 06, which should definitely be in the Town-City level range.

<p style="text-align:center;">But there are some other feats that are often used to argue higher for base Sonic.

<p style="text-align:center;">So I can settle for Multi-Solar System or even beyond that for base Sonic, but this doesn’t matter too much at the moment.
 * Eggman’s machine in Lost World threatened to suck the energy from Earth, which is used to argue Multi-Continental. This is often contested, but it IS worth noting that the climate does seem to be affected, as Amy is shivering when talking to Sonic about it (albeit in the context in which stuff is changed, it'd likely yield around Island, but hey consistency there at least)
 * At the end of CD, Sonic breaks the chains to Little Planet. This chain was what kept Little Planet from going back into orbit. While the planet is consistently shown as small in CD, the levels themselves imply Little Planet is decently big, and even in Sonic 4, the planet is notably bigger.
 * Base Sonic fights Emerl with the seven emeralds, who threatened to destroy the planet.
 * Base Sonic fights Erazor Djin, who was gradually absorbing the Arabian Nights universe. Presumably created and can manipulate Night Palace, which contains numerous stars. This should be around Multi-Solar System level.

<p style="text-align:center;">Note:'' Even though Sonic fought Infinite, he definitely cannot be scaled to him at all, not even his low-end Star level feat. As a matter of fact, it is PIS that Sonic won, as there are actual contradictions in the game between feats. A big one is Classic Sonic... So, Classic Sonic needed the Chaos Emeralds and his Super form to defeat someone powered by the Phantom Ruby in Mania. Meanwhile, in Forces, he can fight someone with an overclocked Phantom Ruby in base. Such scaling is complete and utter contradictory. And not only this, but the Resistance was consistently losing against Infinite. They would have died to the star, which Infinite casually created, but when they manage to get rid of it thanks to the OC's false ruby shard (which shatters right after this, by the way), Infinite doesn't just... make another one? Hell, maybe ten more? Infinite should have won. Straight up. This would mean that the base Sonic characters aren't even above Star level in this game yet took on Multi-Universal Infinite, which is highly inconsistent. This is also why Infinite's low-end Star level can't be given to these characters, either; they were clearly stated to be inferior to such a thing. And while the DLC for Sonic Forces lets you fight Infinite as Super Sonic, that doesn't count. Since you have to beat the level first to play as Super Sonic, that means he never canonically went Super Sonic against Infinite, and thus, cannot be scaled.''

<p style="text-align:center;">As for speed, it is often debated whether or not Sonic is FTL because most of the "evidence" people use come from statements rather than feats, but there are actually a lot of feats supporting Sonic being FTL. First, for dodging the Hotarus' beam at such close range. Second, is the Light Speed Dash, which is not Sonic’s top speed. If one uses Sonic Unleashed’s meter, you can get about 9c for Sonic from there. And thirdly, Shadow (whom Sonic scales to) is reacting while traveling through the internet as beams of light.

<p style="text-align:center;">Now that we're done with Sonic, we should probably start talking about-

Super Sonic
<p style="text-align:center;">Yeah this thing. AP and Dura is super easy, barely an inconvenience. Peak Super Sonic should be Multi-Universal due to destroying the Egg Salamander and Egg Wizard alongside Burning Blaze, stomping the Time Eater at the Center of Time, and defeating Solaris, who would’ve destroyed all of space and time, which contains a multitudinous and ever-expanding set of universes (Maginaryworld). These feats are Low Multiversal, so it's safe to put Super at this tier

<p style="text-align:center;">In terms of speed, I’ve seen it kinda go all over, but Iblis does chuck the emeralds across the universe in which it's manipulating, and the super forms fly to the center here to stop Solaris.

<p style="text-align:center;">https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/6/64/Page320-469px-Sonic06_Prima_digital_guide.pdf.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170908024428

<p style="text-align:center;">I have seen these calced as 6.8 Quadrillionc and 227 Trillionc respectively, so let's just use these numbers, as they are the highest I’ve seen (MFTL+).

<p style="text-align:center;">So now that we're finished with Mario, Sonic, and Super Sonic, let's compare their stats.

<p style="text-align:center;">Mario:  AP and Dura: Universal+ to Multi-Universal Speed: MFTL+ (131 Quadrillionc)

<p style="text-align:center;">Sonic:  AP and Dura: At least Town to City, potentially Multi-Continent- Multi-Solar System Speed: FTL (9c)

<p style="text-align:center;">Super Sonic: AP and Dura: Low Multiversal Speed: MFTL+ (6.8 Quadrillionc)

<p style="text-align:center;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2YrymzID7A Looks like Mario's got the stats edge here, especially against Base Sonic. But that's not all folks. We still have a buttload of arsenal to cover, and to put it lightly…Sonic looks even more screwed when looking at it here.

<p style="text-align:center;">It's often argued that their Power-Ups counters each other when it really… doesn’t.

<p style="text-align:center;">Okay well, in some ways it kinda does.

<p style="text-align:center;">Sonic has power rings that can resist transmutation, and Mario can also resist transmutation thanks to the Safety Ring and surviving some blasts from Kamek that transmutate.

<p style="text-align:center;">Sonic can resist Electrical and Fire attacks from Mario thanks to the Flame and Electric Shield, so that'll help him against Mario’s attacks to some extent.

<p style="text-align:center;">Both have time stops.

<p style="text-align:center;">Both have instant revival and healing. Etc. Etc.

<p style="text-align:center;">But the issue is that Mario has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more Power-Ups than Sonic, meaning that whatever Sonic has, Mario just has but better. Mario has more healing options than Sonic, he has a greater variety of elemental abilities (and I think it could be argued that Mario giving a few physical blows can destroy Sonic’s shields easily but I digress), and Mario’s instant revival is just better overall (Sonic’s Angel Amulet leaves him barely alive, while Mario's Retry Clock can literally rewind the clock and get a do over should he be done in).

<p style="text-align:center;">And beyond that, Mario just has more and more shit.

<p style="text-align:center;">> Blunt Hammer DX which is specifically more dangerous to spiked enemies (and if you haven't figured it out yet, Sonic is a fricking hedgehog, he will be affected by this because of his quills) > Mini Gloves which can quadruple his power should he be shrunk > Golden Wear that will increase his defense the more coins he has (and given a certain bland platformer was all about getting a million coins…that is a loooot of defense) > Can make endless clones of himself, just as strong as he is, with the Double Cherry or the Copy Flower > A variety of ways to traverse different areas, whether air, the ground, or the sea > A water jetpack that can take advantage of Sonic's hydrophobia > King's Wear that allows Mario to deal enemies the same damage that the enemy deals > Quartz Charm that prevents the user from being one-shotted > Several methods of invincibility to boost his defense > Much more armor Etc.

<p style="text-align:center;">And the worst part is? While Sonic’s arsenal can theoretically counter a lot of Mario’s, there is one thing that ruins it. And that’s the Bottomless Gloves. Essentially, they allow Mario to use items without consuming them, basically meaning that with them, he can never run out of items. So, even if you want to argue that Sonic can somehow keep up with the sheer power and variety of Mario’s arsenal with his own, that won’t stop the fact that Sonic’s items WILL run out, and that Mario’s won’t, meaning that all Sonic can do against Mario arsenal wise is stall the inevitable. Not to mention that Sonic actually can't carry his Power-Ups on hand, so unless there's a conveniently placed Flame Shield box in the middle of the battlefield, Sonic would have no means of countering Mario's pyrokinesis.

<p style="text-align:center;">And finally, Super Sonic. While Mario VS Super Sonic is a lot more debatable depending on what you're willing to accept for both characters, the issue is that Sonic would honestly be defeated before he’d ever think to use the Emeralds (and no, he would not use them immediately given his personality, especially against someone like Mario. He only ever used the emeralds on threats he KNOWS he needs them for, outside of when he literally just got them after Sonic 2 and tried testing them. He wouldn't immediately see Mario as a threat he should use the form for), the sheer gap between Mario and Base Sonic is just so staggering that Sonic just won’t ever get the chance. There is his instant revival, but as I said it leaves him weak upon use and his items are more finite than Mario’s.

<p style="text-align:center;">But Super Sonic is gonna be factored into this fight regardless so touching on that is required. Mario VS Super Sonic all really comes down to one question: can Mario outlast Super Sonic's time limit? Yes... and therein lies the kicker. Super Sonic is still only about one step higher on the tier ladder than Mario, while Mario still remains billions of times faster than even Super Sonic, so pure speed will allow Mario to avoid Super Sonic’s attacks, long enough for Super Sonic to run out and allow Mario to land the finishing blow. Mario is also going to constantly be getting stronger through the course of battle, as whenever he uses an item he’s going to gain money which makes him stronger thanks to Cash-Back Badge, and thanks to the Bottomless Gloves he can use these with no limit. Also any damage he takes is going to make him stronger thanks to the Rally Belt. This continues even further as if he goes mini, all his attacks will be quadrupled in damage thanks to the Mini Gloves, and all his attacks will be critical if he wears the Mini Boots. Due to all the aforementioned stat boosts and damage boosts, Mario can potentially close off the strength gap between him and Super Sonic, and like I said, Super Sonic is only about one step higher on the tier ladder than Mario, so Mario closing off the stat gap ain't impossible. If Super Sonic were to K.O. Mario in some fashion, the Retry Clock essentially starts everything back to square one, with Mario now knowing of the Chaos Emeralds and being able to stop him from transforming, and with the Bottemless Gloves he can use these indefinitely, granting Mario unlimited tries to defeat Super Sonic. Mario could also just use the King's Wear's hax to kill Super Sonic with the same damage Super Sonic deals.

<p style="text-align:center;">Note: It is worth noting that Sonic was seen in Super a few days after transforming in the ending of one of the Advanced Games, but since there is nothing Sonic could have been doing in between this timeframe, it can be contested whether or not Sonic was Super for several days straight.

<p style="text-align:center;">Lastly if we want to touch on mundane stuff like experience or intellect I’d say the plumber still has a decent advantage. Intellect is not a huge gap considering both have proven to be proven quite cunning in their various adventures. Experience would be the more greater of the two gap wise, as Mario has been adventuring since he was a baby, has participated in a variety of sports both in adult and baby and has fought a variety of enemies with a bigger range of abilities and powers compared to the enemies Sonic tends to face.

<p style="text-align:center;">Overall, Mario absolutely stomps Sonic in his base form and would realistically end the fight before super forms are even a factor. On the off brand chance Sonic gets access to his super form, he still cannot touch Mario, nor harm him to a great degree if he gets his respective universal stats. Mario’s arsenal is far larger and contains more broken abilities to work with, most notably the Bottomless Gloves which give him an infinite supply of power ups to wallop on Sonic. Lastly, his experience outclasses Sonic’s thanks to being exposed to various types of enemies as a baby, and having a much more diverse lineup of opponents to combat against in the series as a whole.

<p style="text-align:center;">But I know some of you will disagree with the stats I provided, so here’s what I’ll do. I’ll list every scenario I can think of as to how determining the winner of this fight could go.

<p style="text-align:center;">Scenario #1: Let Mario achieve the highest form of scaling possible and only let Sonic to reach a level of scaling most usually can get behind. Mario would be High Hyperverse level due to saving Dream Depot, which is possibly an infinite-dimensional structure. And Sonic would be large planet level via scaling him to Perfect Dark Gaia. If this is the case, Mario would win, because High Hyperverse level > Large Planet level.

<p style="text-align:center;">Scenario #2: Take Scenario #1 and reverse it. Let Sonic reach the highest form of scaling possible and only let Mario reach a level of scaling most people usually get behind. In this case, Sonic would be Multi-Universal via scaling to Solaris, Time Eater, and Egg Wizard. Mario would be star to solar system level via Bowser falling into what’s presumably a real black hole, I guess. If this is the case, Sonic would win, because Low Multiversal level > Solar System level. (This is the scenario that the so-called "debunkers" use in their videos.)

<p style="text-align:center;">Scenario #3: Let’s have both characters achieve a level I tend to see gets accepted often without much debate. Mario would be Solar System level via scaling to Bowser falling into what’s presumably a real black hole, and Sonic would only be around Large Planet level via scaling to Dark Gaia. If this is the case, Mario would win, because Solar System > Large Planet level.

<p style="text-align:center;">Scenario #4: Let both characters achieve the highest form of scaling possible for both series. Mario would be High Hyperverse level due to saving Dream Depot, which is possibly an infinite-dimensional structure. And Super Sonic would be Multi-Universal via scaling to Solaris, Time Eater, and Egg Wizard. If this is the case, Mario would win, as being High Hyperverse level > Low Multiversal level.

<p style="text-align:center;">Scenario #5: Avoid using scaling all together. Don’t scale Mario and Sonic to anybody. Don’t scale Mario to Bowser, Wario, or any power source that exists in the Mario universe, and don’t scale Sonic to Solaris, Dark Gaia, or anything else that’s empowered by Chaos Emeralds. Mario would be Large Town level+ via punting Larry's castle and Sonic would be Multi-City Block level via hill smashing in Sonic CD. If this was the case, Mario would win, because Large Town level+ > Multi-City Block level.

<p style="text-align:center;">Scenario #6: Avoid using scaling and feats and only use game mechanics. If this was the case, Sonic would win, because all Sonic needs is one ring and he can stay in the fight indefinitely, while Mario can take, at absolute best, 6 hits before he goes down.

<p style="text-align:center;">And of course, of all the scenarios I can think of, Mario wins the majority of them, thanks to having a counter for everything Sonic can throw at him and for having much better possible scaling options than Sonic AND Super Sonic, as well as better strength and durability without scaling. So all in all, this battle's conclusion would be no different from The Console Wars, only this time, Sonic faces a much darker fate.

<p style="text-align:center;">The winner is Mario.

Adressing arguments that can be stated (because I can already taste the salt)
<p style="text-align:center;">'''1. '"Couldn't Sonic just use Chaos Control to teleport Mario into the sun, or go back in time to kill him when he's a baby?"''

<p style="text-align:center;">^ I seriously doubt that Sonic would teleport Mario into the sun, or go back in time to kill Baby Mario. First, Sonic rarely ever uses Chaos Control, because Chaos Control is more of Shadow's niche, and Sonic needed Super Shadow's help to teleport the ARK back into orbit. Second, Sonic has never really used those tactics in any form of media I'm aware of. The argument that "he can just teleport him into the sun" or "kill him when he's a baby" is absolute bullshit, as it just compromises Sonic's character. Even IF Sonic went back in time, Mario can just follow Sonic through time because it's a thing Mario has canonically done in the past when Bowser got a similar idea (Yoshi's New Island). On top of that Mario has time manipulation of his own that while Sonic can remain aware in, he has no resistance to, so this gives Mario plenty opportunity to wail on him.

<p style="text-align:center;">2. "Mario's Starman isn't invincible, because it can die from lava"

<p style="text-align:center;">^ That's just a game mechanic, and game mechanics tend to be very inconsistent, because in 64, Sunshine, Galaxy 1&2, and Odyssey, Base Mario is able to survive lava, but in 2D titles, Mario dies from lava in one hit. So game mechanics aren't the most relaible source, because they tend to contradict themselves a lot, and since Mario is already Universal+ in base, I'm pretty sure a Power-Up that's meant to increase his durability should be above lava. And no I'm not giving it a "no limits fallacy", I'm simply saying that using game mechanics is a very stupid way of lowballing Mario's Starman, and I'm pretty sure I already proved that Mario would still be tough enough to survive without it.

<p style="text-align:center;">3. "What about the Werehog? Or Darkspine? Or ect.?"

<p style="text-align:center;">^ Neither character should be given access to one time Macguffins, circumstantial forms, powers or equipment. For Sonic this includes his Werehog form, the Time Stones, Darkspine Sonic, Excalibur Sonic, and Hyper Sonic. Darkspine Sonic requires the non-standard World Rings, which can only be used under specific circumstances (using the power of the World Rings to even a partial extent requires a person to give up their life, which was the character Shara in the given situation). Excalibur Sonic requires the use of multiple “sacred” weapons along with Sonic’s own Caliburn sword to initiate the transformation, which means Sonic needs outside help for it. The Werehog form can only be taken on at night and was lost at the end of the Sonic Unleashed when Sonic was purified of the dark energy that gave him said form in the first place. The Super Emeralds were only temporary because they only appeared in one game (S3&K), and in the game after (Sonic Triple Trouble) the Super Emeralds go back to normal, and they have stayed that way since. And the Time Stones are just one time Macguffins that Sonic only uses in one game (Sonic CD). If Sonic is given access to one time Macguffins, circumstantial forms, powers or equipment, the same standards must be applied to Mario, granting Mario even MORE broken items to work with such as the Magical Typewriter and the Pure Hearts.

<p style="text-align:center;">'''4. '"Sonic was able to move in a timless void, so Sonic's speed can be considered infinite"''

<p style="text-align:center;">^ So has Mario. Mario fought and easily kept up with Culex, and Culex is the Master of Time and Space, and can consume time. Thus, timeless voids would be his natural environment. He also holds time from its beginning to its end, and during his fight, he was crossing between dimensions. It's actually stated in the Japanese version he was within a dimensional rift, and those are, by definition, devoid of time and space. Furthermore, he was about to leave Mario's and go back to Vanda--thus, he was in between dimensions at the time. Meaning, he was outside of the space-time continuum--which all qualifies for infinite speed. In Tick Tock Clock, the progression of time is dependent on when you enter the world. Entering at 12 o'clock stops time completely, yet Mario can still move freely in this state. The only reason why I didn't include this, is because I just can't get behind Mario and Sonic having infinite speed, because they both have clearly shown limits such as Sonic failing to outrun the black hole in Colors, and failing to rescue Tails from the trap in Lost World, he even admits that he wasn't fast enough to save him in that same scene.

<p style="text-align:center;">5. "Sonic fighting Infinite with the Phantom Ruby in Base while it required Super Classic Sonic with all seven Emeralds to defeat a Phantom Ruby user is explained by Sonic getting stronger stated and implied by Sonic and Infinite."

<p style="text-align:center;">^ You're very correct on Sonic getting stronger, but two things happen in Sonic Forces that make it impossible to reasonably scale Sonic to Infinite. One, Classic Sonic, the younger Sonic, needed the Chaos Emeralds and his Super form to beat Heavy King with a regular Phantom Ruby. But moments later in Forces, he can suddenly fight and damage someone with an overclocked Phantom Ruby, which contradicts pretty much all of Mania. Two, Sonic and all of his gang were very clearly stated to die should the star Infinite created reach the planet. They were saying it's impossible to beat that, and without the Phantom Ruby Prototype, they would have never gotten rid of it. The Phantom Ruby Prototype shattered afterwards though, so Infinite really wanted, he could have just made another star, or even ten more, and they would have had no way to counter it. Despite Sonic getting stronger, he's stated very firmly to be unable to stop this star, and he would die should it hit.

<p style="text-align:center;">But all in all, this is just my opinion, feel free to debate about it, as long as you don't directly insult me. Anyways I have nothing else to say here execpt "thank you so much for-a-reading this blog!"

Reference

 * https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Metal875/Mario%27s_Feats_Compilation


 * https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Metal875/Mario%27s_Feats_Compilation_2


 * http://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2018/10/death-battle-predictions-mario-vs-sonic.html


 * http://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2017/05/community-collab-prediction-blog-mario.html


 * https://deathbattle.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:SonicAnimeStar/My_Mario_vs_Sonic_(2018)_Debunk (comment section)


 * https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(Canon,_Composite)/Metal875