Talk:Roshi VS Jiraiya/@comment-26915466-20181129022927/@comment-26915466-20181213205308

Hey, the Silver Age is canon too. Superman fought characters like Infinite Man, then next issue he got taken out by a laser same way Goku did. Why you getting so hyped over him punching Dr. Manhattan? It's nothing special. Give him a while, he'll be back to super horrific low-ends. Another five years, and nothing he did here will matter anyway. DC is famous for its retcons. And no, we shouldn't include Superman's high-ends, but we shouldn't use his low-ends either. Settle for somewhere in the middle. His most consistent showing, given that he's a mid-tier character and has always been presented that way for much of his run, is around planetary to stellar to galactic ranges.

Okay, awesome. Legitimate battle forums mock Death Battle for a reason, in that they've empowered really horrible debaters who want Superman to win, but argue lazily, so they resort to NLFs. I can't tell you how often I hear people say Superman is "limitless." He has no roof on the solar energy he can absorb. His potential to absorb is infinite, and he has limitless stamin and regen. Doesn't mean he's an omnipotent deity. Superman being "as strong as he needs to be" is also these Superman/Death Battle fanboys' way of trying to reconcile all his inconsistent showings. If so, then it paints him as an idiot all the times he loses, or worse, criminally negligent, or even worse, a manipulative monster. That's NOT what the writers want at all - er, anymore, lol. But with that logic, you'd think Superman could beat the Chaos Gods or the Outer Gods or the Marvel abstracts or really high-tier beings like The Presence, TOAA, and Azathoth. He's not Saitama (not that Saitama could do those things either).

At the time the battle came out, no, New 52 and Post-Crisis Superman were separate, and so it does not invalidate them stacking the deck in Superman's favor. I truly think they didn't wanna go back on their outcome, and Ben even admits it was just adding new information, so they went out of their way to try and paint Superman as a boring invincible hero and hype up Goku more, and it shows how dumb those two are when they fail both, and piss off both the fandoms at the same time, those familiar with Superman, who know that he is NOT an omnipotent reality-warping Tier 1 Eldritch Entity in terms of power, and those who felt furious Goku lost in a truly disrespectful manner. That takes a special kind of talent right there, lol. Also, his power fluctuates wildly, so I maintain Goku could beat Rebirth Superman if he had the right writer on his side. If Ben and Chad do remaster Goku vs. Superman, it's their duty to give us a Goku victory. Because no matter what new, more "accurate" information they give us to try and make up for Goku vs. Superman 2, if Goku doesn't take the win, the fans will just take that as another loss in Goku vs. Superman 3 as the internet burns down in flames... again. And I had enough of that last time. Though I don't trust Ben on this issue at all. So, inb4 Goku loses a third time.