Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-31270269-20170313181642/@comment-30870165-20170324014831

Paleomario66 wrote: Clockworx wrote: Paleomario66 wrote: Clockworx wrote: Paleomario66 wrote: Here are mine, with a brief summary of why.*Rogue VS Wonder Woman: Wonder Woman is physically superior in literally every way, having fought Superman before. This was an early episode though. Not here to argue, but you need to go more into why you think Goku's god forms could beat Superman. And Mario Party? Really? I agree Mario is stronger and more durable, but I think Super Sonic physically outclasses Mario with any power up. And do you know how long Super Sonic can last? They gave Mario a break in the battle.
 * Goomba VS Koopa: Goomba Shoe should have crushed the Piranha Plant (like Mario could do with it) in the scenario then gone into the pipe and killed the Koopa.
 * Dig Dug VS Bomberman: Bomberman is Universe level and FTL+, meaning Dig Dug can't even do anything to him.
 * Vegeta VS Shadow: Thanks to the SSB form and Dragon Ball Super, this now correct, but without it, Super Shadow completely outclasses Vegeta in raw power so he should be able to finish him before he reverts back to normal. Also, he shouldn't be able to last long in space.
 * Mario VS Sonic: Said Sonic was faster, yet ignored how Mario outclasses him literally everywhere else. With SMG and Mario Party feats, even speed is up for debate. With powerups, it is close, but Mario's durability and powerups would help him outlast Super Sonic.
 * Eggman VS Wily: Metal Overlord cannot be accessed without copying data from Sonic and all of his friends, and Bass should have outclassed all of Eggman's army, including Metal Sonic (of course barring Metal Overlord). The Final Egg Blaster and other machines that have fought Super Sonic could have allowed Eggman to win though.
 * Pikachu VS Blanka: Not too sure about this one, but I doubt Pikachu would go down that easy. Blanka is slightly superior in strength, AP, and durability, but Pikachu is quite a bit smarter, and more intelligent. I really don't have an idea of who would win though.
 * Link VS Cloud: Yeah, Link is a better strategist, but Cloud physically outclasses Link.
 * Luigi VS Tails: Like Mario VS Sonic, but there are no powerups, and they COMPLETELY downplayed Luigi's strength by using a low-end feat from ONE GAME.
 * Ryu VS Scorpion: Used an NLF for Scorpion, Ryu is physically outclasses Scorpion. This would allow him to land hits as Evil Ryu, which WOULD kill him. Also, powering up in the Netherealm takes quite a bit longer than is shown.
 * Goku VS Superman 2: Okay, I agree with the first Goku VS Superman (the reasoning was horrible though), but Goku likely would have won with his God forms, especially thanks to Dragon Ball Super.
 * Yang VS Tifa: From what I've heard about Tifa, Yang couldn't even damage her due to the gap in stats. Also, they used an NLF to overestimate Yang.
 * Mega Man VS Astro Boy: This was unfair, since they used non-canon stuff for Astro Boy but not Mega Man. Using the strongest Astro Boy and Classic Mega Man, they are pretty close in AP and Durability, with Mega Man being somewhat faster and Astro Boy being somewhat stronger. Not really sure who wins, but this is by no means a stomp in Astro Boy's favor.
 * Bowser VS Ganon: Completely nerfed Bowser (used a horrible excuse for nerfing Dry Bowser), used the supernova durability feat, but forgot Bowser ALSO survived the universe's destruction right afterwards, used the holy weapons NLF, and much more. This is the Death Battle I disagree with the most, by far.
 * Mewtwo VS Shadow: They forgot Shadow has resisted mind wiping in Shadow the Hedgehog, and also Super Shadow is so fast and powerful that he would one-shot and blitz Mega Mewtwo Y, as Shadow Mewtwo or not.
 * Tracer VS Scout: From what I've heard about these two, Scout was nerfed badly, and Tracer was given a feat that she didn't perform.

Again, not here to argue or shoot down your opinions. I know you're not trying to shoot down my opinions, but if you want an explanation, here you go:

Mario VS Sonic
Okay, here's why Mario could match up to Super Sonic. Sonic has fought beings like the Time Eater who could wipe out a space-time continuum, but Mario in BASE form has taken on a being named Culex in Super Mario RPG, who Defeated Culex, who is stated as the Master of Space and Time in the guide booklet, page 64, and in the Japanese translation, he stated that he is the embodiment of time from its beginning to its end and that he holds the power of creation throughout the Marioverse. That's one of the reasons why I think Mario VS Sonic w/Powerups is close. Also, Mario could harm Bowser in Super Mario Galaxy, who survived the destruction and rebirth of the universe (Mario was saved by Rosalina, but Bowser was not).

As for Mario Party? Well, it has been officially stated by Miyamoto that Mario has no canon, and therefore even the Paper Mario series can be used. And if you have any doubts over whether Paper Mario is Mario, this blog gives an explanation why. If you're questioning why Mario should be able to beat Sonic with feats from it, then here's why.

Speed


 * barely outran a black hole in Mario Party 6
 * Could casually move in the gravity of a black hole while fighting Bowser in Mario Party 5, 8, and 9, and in the latter the same black hole was sucking in whole planets
 * Fought the Millennium Star, which flew from the center of the universe to Earth in a couple of seconds

The latter feat puts Mario's speed at quadrillions of time FTL.

Attack Potency/Durability:
 * Tanked multiple black holes
 * Defeated Bowser during the events of Mario Party 5, where Bowser outright stated and showed he was going to ruin, or, destroy all the dreams, including Future Dream, which was outright stated by both Misstar AND Mario Party 5's guide booklet to be an entire universe.

This feat puts Mario on a level matching and surpassing Super Sonic. And that's without Paper Mario feats, though Archie Sonic may be able to beat Mario if Paper Mario feats are not included. That's why I think Mario wins.

It was also unfair that they acknowledged the Archie Super Emeralds, while not acknowledging Mario's Paper Mario feats.

Doubt of Goku VS Superman 2
Well, this is mainly because the gap in power between SSG Goku and Goku before Battle of Gods is massive. SS3 Goku (who could now use the form casually, unlike in the Buu Saga) was taken out by Beerus with no problem. Even when SS2 Vegeta witnessed Bulma getting hit by Beerus, he was only able to land several hits on him. Beerus was not even close to full power. As Super Saiyan God, Goku did much better, pushing Beerus to 70% of his power.

As for SS3 Goku, he in the Buu Saga was able to fight Kid Buu, who in Supreme Kai's flashback gradually obliterated a Galaxy. This puts him at Multi-Solar System level. Still, Superman could beat him due to his speed advantage. However, Beerus isn't that much slower than Whis, who could travel across galaxies in a short amount of time. In Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection of F, Whis stated it would take 35 minutes to go from Beerus' planet to Earth at maximum speed. This makes the speed gap less significant. Goku overwhelms (Post-Crisis) Superman in raw power, so really I guess it could have gone either way, with each having a huge AP advantage and a huge speed advantage (until Dragon Ball Super Episode 12 at least, with the gap of power becoming so massive, even Superman's speed won't be enough), but their reasoning for Superman's victory wasn't that good. If we're using Paper Mario or those other games, would it be fair to not include Archie Sonic? Also, I think resetting the universe doesn't really do any damage. It just...resets. But thanks for being more elaborate.

Yeah it would, just pointing out that they acknowledged the Archie Super Emeralds, but not the Pure Hearts or anything like that. I don't think it would be fair to use an overpowered spinoff of Mario but not an overpowered comic book Sonic.