Talk:Goku VS Superman/@comment-27582488-20160116150656/@comment-29103722-20160917031908

Rebuttal

Speed: Superman dismantled alien weapons, freed slaves from an underground prison, and flew from Apocolips to Earth in a matter of seconds; he has also accelerated to the point where time stood still and had a conversation with Flash. While instant transmission is faster by literally being instant that doesn't necessarily mean he has the edge like when he fought Beerus the first or even the second time.

 Durability: When you say he died from the big bang I assume you're referring to in Pre Crisis when he disappeared after diving into the big bang. If that is the case he didn't die, he reappears later of his own accord. Speaking of the big bang, Post Crisis Superman also survived it, he was however sun dipped at the time he still showed no discomfort in the slightest. Without being sun dipped he has withstood the force of a black hole (two on one occasion) several times.



 Fighting ability: This one's debatable but many people tend to underestimate Superman in this regard. Over the years he's developed his own fighting technique that utilizes his superpowers and allows him to adapt to anyone he's fighting. He's also defeated Wonder Woman and Batman who are two of the most skilled combatants in DC who have been trained to fight their entire life and mastered every martial art in the world respectively.



 Destructive power: Goku and Superman have almost the same feat for this one. However Goku's version doesn't make sense because the shockwaves somehow got stronger as the get farther away. Superboy was in a weakened state when he destroyed the dimensional barrier which is why it took several hours meaning it doesn't debunk Superman and Ultramans fight nearly destroying the universe.



 I'll also address any of the feats you discussed I didn't previously mention.



 1 & 2. I mostly agree with your reasoning on these for 1 the book is infinite as it has infinite pages but finite information as there are only so many books in existence but it still has infinite pages. Either way this feat is more PIS than anything so I don't really take it too seriously. As for 2 I fully agree with you Spectre is heavy but eternity doesn't have anything to do with it.



 3. I don't understand what you mean was it stated he was manipulating time (I don't actually know) or are you assuming that because it doesn't match some of his other speed feats. If you could elaborate please.



 5. You are correct the explosion was only the size of 50 supernovas not actually 50 supernovas. He did tank the explosion while severely weakened but it's still not as impressive as people make it out to be.



<p class="MsoNormal"> <span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;">In regards to that guidebook scan, it appears to be from an old issue so it's likely outdated. I'm not saying it's wrong and he is limitless it would just be nice to see a more current source confirm it.