Board Thread:VS Debates/@comment-27599520-20171128034953/@comment-25295648-20171217213703

Vs Battles Wiki is bullshit, no denying that, especially with the wank from a certain staff member who supports (wanks) Saint Seiya. However, I have personally reviewed Saint Seiya's power, and no. Just no. Even without VBW's wank, Seiya rips Superman in half, it is not even remotely fair.

Okay, let's entertain the idea that Superman is universal+ with his top moves, Seiya surpasses that, he has managed to do Apollo which, has stated, has destroyed entire universes with words. Punching timelines <<<< such a feat. Even lower end multiversal feats >>>>>> the highest end universal feat. Furthermore, Virgo Shaka managed to be on the brink of life from the Athena Exclamation attack, he died yes, but still was able to transmit one message before he died. This same cloth and energy was casually shattered by Hypnos and Thanatos' power, who themselves were easily one-shotted by God Cloth Seiya. This is God Cloth Seiya initially, he then raised his power furthermore and did legitimate damage to Hades, who commented on his pain. This same Hades can easily create 3 universes, hold them up, and destroy them just as easily. Plus, Seiya was already capable of reaching universal way earlier, as in the Poseidon Arc he could break a pillar which is known to be able to survive the death of the universe and was capable of not being scratched by the Gold Saint weapons of Libra Dhoko. Overall, aside from his Dominus feat, Superman's very highest end feats are universal+, Seiya is either on a higher end of universal+, or is very low Multiversal.

And then we get to the elephant in the room, speed. Seiya quite literally could blitz Superman to oblivion. There is only 1 Post-Crisis Speed feat remotely comparable to Seiya's speed, and it itself is still much smaller. Seiya, for a reminder, was able to cross the equivalent of billions of galaxies and their gaps in minutes to a week. He should be comparable to Shura who through miracles can exceed the initial expansion speed of the big bang. Saint Seiya characters are confident that they can cross several light years in seconds. Andromeda Shun's chains can cross entire universes and once went several light years in seconds. And no, don't try the "Mach 1" or "1C" argument. Saint Seiya admittedly is quite inconsistent, one moment they say their attacks far exceed light speed and/or characters dodge light speed attacks casually, yet sometimes they say they are 1C. Given the plethora of feats suggesting them being much faster than light, it would make more sense. Oh and if you say "Oh Superman can keep up with Wally West." True, but Wally West's very highest end feats were all from external boosts, he normally is extremely fast, yes, but he does not have consistent sextillions c feats without any boost, just one. Saint Seiya has at least two, and it shown to be consistent.

Then there is Seiya's hax. Saints with Athena's blood are acausal so any space-time fuckery from Supes' power is irrelevant. He has soul manipulation making him able to resurrect himself in-case he dies or soulfuck his opponent (Superman is probably immune to that, but Seiya is also, so no mind-tricks, Seiya has dealt with far worse telepaths), his adaptation is capable of making him evolve past attacks from primordial gods (Hypnos and Thanatos) just from seeing it, and so if Superman does not kill Seiya with a move, that move will never work on Seiya again. Furthermore in Episode G, it is elaborated that moves will only be half-effective if a Saint has already seen a similar move prior. God Cloths >>>> Hypnos and Thanatos, who are capable of tanking temperatures "Hundreds of times below absolute zero."

Lastly, unlike Superman, who has been claimed to not be limitless by guidebooks, authors, and himself on occasions in comparison to other characters (Whether it be Specter, Mxy, Darkseid, Green Lantern, etc.), Seiya has been called to be limitless and capable of surpassing infinity by many high authority figures, whether it be the author, or Athena herself. Seiya is capable of raising his cosmo to infinity, and surpassing it and the power of any god for an instant. In that instant he is limitless and infinite.

Strange Visitor? The form he only reached after a massive amount of time far exceeding the amount of time it would take Seiya to blitz Superman? Never mind the fact that dimensional tiering is BS and Mxy is Kronos level (Albeit still far more powerful than Seiya). The Sword of Superman was from a one-shot Pre-Crisis comic, and would still make him only comparable to initial God Cloth Seiya. Seiya has a more powerful god cloth in Episode G Assassins, which was told by Athena to be infinite.

Oh and if Superman beats Seiya? Cool, say hi to Demonbane. Unlike what Versus Battles Wiki likes to claim with its BS dimensional tiering system, or what OBD claims with its BS multiversal-megaversal system, no DC character reaches past high 2-A or 1-C.