Talk:Mario VS Sonic/@comment-29933641-20170903214127/@comment-26374068-20171123071914

@Darkness: I already know everything about Archie Sonic. There's Pre-Genesis, which is only "At least Universe level+" because he was way above Knuckles Enerjak, whom got his power usurped by Mammoth Mogul, who then proceeded to bust universes. He traveled the Cosmic Interstate which has ridiculous speed calculations, and forms like Ultra Sonic can adapt to different elements and alter matter.

Post-Genesis lacks anything Pre-Genesis has, but makes up for it with ridiculous power. With the help of Super Mega Man, Super Sonic stalemated God Sigma [ who transcended all limitations of an infinite multiverse.] This would make Super Sonic 5-dimensional, or High Multiverse level+. Enough to beat all of Mario's enemies... except a few.

Now, I've done my research on Archie Sonic. Have you done yours on Paper Mario? Because this stuff is literally nothing to him.

Paper Mario beat Dimentio.

Dimentio is a powerful jester and magician. This guy can even match The Void itself in sheer power. How do we know this? Well, when Mario and his gang tanked The Void, they were knocked unconscious and blasted to Flipside—clear across worlds, or universes. Then, when Dimentio opened fire on them, they were knocked unconscious and blasted to the Underwhere; an entirely separate world. With both knocking the party unconscious and blasting them to another world, the similarities cannot be ignored, and thus, Dimentio matched its power. Not to mention he, in an attack he held back on, matched a tremor from The Void, and he even created a universe, Dimension D, that was completely unaffected by The Void. Even though The Void erases ALL existence! This means Dimentio contains power that can match, get by and even surpass The Void. What can The Void do?

Well, The Void is prophesied to erase the very concept of all existence, including all worlds, all dimensions, all timelines and time periods, and even all possibilities. Here’s where things get broken.

There is a little thing that exists in Mario called String Theory Soup. This artifact is completely canon, as Wario is required to gain treasures and, by story, breaks in and steals them, and it is extremely trustworthy, as its bio is told to us by a third-person omniscient narrator, who knows ALL. So, when its bio tells us that the universe’s secrets can be obtained by drinking this soup, we KNOW the Marioverse runs on String Theory. Which means, erasing “all dimensions” has a more impactful meaning.

While some would argue that Super Paper Mario's highly controversial, "And in the end, it will consume all existence... All worlds, all dimensions." refers to the common synonym universe for dimension, there is plenty pointing otherwise. Dimension D is the piece of evidence to say they mean universe. What says it means space? Well, Merlon stating that The Void is a hole in the dimensional fabric of space, Bestovius being referred to as a dimensional governor that gives out the dimensional technique, said dimensional technique being one that flips the user between spatial dimensions, and, well, sense itself. Why? "And in the end, it will consume all existence... All universes, all universes..." I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense. And besides, it consumes all existence and all dimensions, which would count as spatial as well due to the Marioverse abiding by String Theory. All dimensions would therefore mean all dimensions that exist, which would be both either way.

Now that we’ve gotten this out of the way, how do we know exactly what String Theory the soup meant? Well my friend, let us explore the possibilities together.

String Theory is divided into different theories. None are referred to simply as "String Theory." Allow me: Prior to 1995, theorists believed that there were five consistent versions of Superstring Theory (type I, type IIA, type IIB, and two versions of heterotic string theory). This understanding changed in 1995 when Edward Witten suggested that the five theories were just special limiting cases of an eleven-dimensional theory called M-Theory (the name behind it is for "membrane," or "mother of all string theories." Any version of string theory, by default, runs with M-theory). Thus, there are five versions of String Theory, all of which are connected to M-Theory. In Bosonic String Theory, space-time is 26-dimensional, while in Superstring Theory it is 10-dimensional, and in M-Theory it is 11-dimensional. Between these three, so we don't wank and so we don't downplay, M-Theory is the safest (and most likely) case the game had been referring to. And considering it didn't specify, simply calling it "String Theory," we would go by the safest and most likely case. In this case, M-Theory. Not to mention that Superstring Theory goes off of M-Theory either way, so we'd need specific statements to call it 10-D instead of 11-D. Which we do not have, unfortunately. This is why the Marioverse would be 11-dimensional, rather than 10-dimensional or 26-dimensional. And yes, while the Marioverse does not commonly dabble in any dimensions aside from 2-D, 3-D, and 4-D, we can't deny that the Marioverse has dabbled in such a topic to begin with. Which proves, at least a little bit, that such a thing can realistically exist in Mario.

Not to mention how the worlds in Super Paper Mario have mathematical equations floating around the worlds, like a world called "Lineland," which is easily a reference to mathematical dimensions, or even how one world has strips of space with purple, string-like objects behind them. The latter could easily be interpreted as String Theory, and String Theory Soup only backs that up.

Finally, how do I know The Void erases the concept of these things? Easy. Not only does Mr. L describe the prophecy's power as making something never exist, but Count Bleck, the guy executing the prophecy, says he'll make it as if the worlds never existed at all. This is all very consistent, because not only does it erase the afterlife, but after hitting Sammer's Kingdom, as this guy points out, [https://youtu.be/rt6vmN6XYpY?t=12m52s none of the people from the kingdom ever arrive in the Underwhere or Overthere--which are the afterlives. They are gone.] Erasing something's concept, as this page describes, would be like making it as if those concepts never existed, and the world simply conforms around that. This is what happens with The Void, until it erases everything.

Now that that’s out of the way, and we’ve settled on how the Marioverse is indeed 11-dimensional, and how The Void’s statement clearly references erasure of the concept of mathematical dimensions, all of them, we can see that Dimentio matches a dimensional black hole capable of erasing the very concept of the 11th dimension. Not to mention it can erase all the universes, timelines and other concepts in the Marioverse. I mean, it DOES erase all existence. This would make Dimentio High Complex Multiverse level, and Paper Mario beat him... in base form. Hence, Paper Mario doesn't even need the Pure Hearts to beat Archie Sonic. In a blinding instant, since he can still move in The Void which erases the concept of higher dimensional time, Paper Mario would have already hit Archie Sonic an infinite amount of times, completely destroying him, so any of Sonic's hax is pointless anyway.

Sorry for the wall, but yeah, I'll tell you straight-up: not only does Mario have a chance against Archie Sonic, but with Paper Mario, he wins.